W.W.&F. Discussion Forum

Other Maine Narrow Gauges (Historic & Preserved) => Boothbay Railway Village => Topic started by: Stephen Hussar on August 04, 2008, 01:07:24 AM

Title: B&SR coach 11 at Boothbay
Post by: Stephen Hussar on August 04, 2008, 01:07:24 AM
no message

Title: Re: B&SR coach 11 at Boothbay
Post by: Tom Casper on August 04, 2008, 12:30:14 PM
Nice Pic .  Is the red roof something Bothbay added or is there some historical fact to that.  Just wondering.

Tom C.
Title: Re: B&SR coach 11 at Boothbay
Post by: Joe Fox on August 04, 2008, 02:09:57 PM
Wow, imagine seeing that beautifull car being pulled in Bridgton by #7. Great pic Steve. How often does Boothbay run this coach?

Joe
Title: Re: B&SR coach 11 at Boothbay
Post by: Mike Fox on August 05, 2008, 12:59:59 AM
The roof color most likely was originally that way. Over the years, the soot coats it to make it look more maroon or even black.
Title: Re: B&SR coach 11 at Boothbay
Post by: Pete "Cosmo" Barrington on August 05, 2008, 03:21:56 AM
Interesting.....
old color films of the B&H show the entire car to be a caboose or "oxide" red! Was that not the original livery? I suppose it's possible it was cheaper to paint the coaches that color durring the last days of the B&H. ;)
Title: Re: B&SR coach 11 at Boothbay
Post by: James Patten on August 05, 2008, 11:12:45 AM
It was after much research by the fellows at Boothbay Railway Village that they determined the color you see to be the proper color green (I think it's called Brunswick Green but I forget).  They found the color after stripping the car of paint.  Also Coach 3 proved to have that same color underneath the Edaville Yellow.
Title: Re: B&SR coach 11 at Boothbay
Post by: Tom Casper on August 05, 2008, 03:38:58 PM
James,

I was refering to the roof,

Tom C.
Title: Re: B&SR coach 11 at Boothbay
Post by: John McNamara on August 05, 2008, 04:59:36 PM
James,

I was refering to the roof,

Tom C.
I think James was responding to Pete Barrington's suggestion that maybe the entire car was red.
Title: Re: B&SR coach 11 at Boothbay
Post by: James Patten on August 06, 2008, 12:03:26 AM
John is correct, I was referring to the posting about the entire car being red.
Title: Re: B&SR coach 11 at Boothbay
Post by: Brendan Barry on August 06, 2008, 01:27:28 AM
Is coach 11 riding on freight or passenger trucks?
Title: Re: B&SR coach 11 at Boothbay
Post by: Duncan Mackiewicz on August 13, 2008, 05:49:24 PM
Steve,
Great shot of coach 11.  It looks great standing next to the platform all shiney and painted up like that.  Joe is correct about how nice the combination of #7 and coach 11 would look.
Duncan
Title: Re: B&SR coach 11 at Boothbay
Post by: Dave Crow on August 13, 2008, 10:00:05 PM
Brendan,

When I visited last September, coach 11 was riding on freight car trucks.  I think they have plans to build a replica set of passenger car trucks at some point...

Dave Crow
Title: Re: B&SR coach 11 at Boothbay
Post by: Stewart "Start" Rhine on August 13, 2008, 11:04:15 PM
Regarding the livery of two foot passenger equipment.  The cars had red roofs when new.  The paint was called Red Lead.  The name came from the use of pigment gotten from the acid that steel mills used to wash rust off of metal.  The used red acid was sold to paint companies for the base color in the paint.  Car builders Jackson & Sharp, Billmeyer & Small and Laconia all used red lead paint. 

Some railroads had other liverys but generally passenger car bodies were painted in the Brunswick green that James mentioned.  The color was common in the northeast prior to WW II.  It is similar to a glossy dark Army green.  We know that the SR&RL, B&SR and Maine Central used it.  The original color of W&Q coach 3 was brunswick green with a red lead roof.  As Mike said, soot darkened the roofs over the time.
Title: Re: B&SR coach 11 at Boothbay
Post by: Keith Taylor on August 17, 2008, 03:15:50 PM
Hello Stewart, you mention red lead, which is in fact exactly what was used, and was also used by boat builders on wooden hulls. However...the red that I see used at the various Maine two foot gauge museums is not exactly the same shade as red lead. REAL red lead is actually a brownish red...and never glossy. I wonder if the modern paints are not able to exactly dupicate the color due to eliminating lead from the formula?
Keith
Title: Re: B&SR coach 11 at Boothbay
Post by: Stewart "Start" Rhine on August 17, 2008, 11:53:52 PM
Hi Keith,  What you said about the roof paint is true.  Real red lead is hard to dulicate without the lead additive.  I tried to match it on the roof of coach 3 when I paint it 8 years ago.  It actually looked a little better once it got a soot coating.   Yes the original red lead paint had more brown in it than anything today.  I could get a better color match if I had an old paint chip from the part of a car roof that is out of the light and weather.

Stewart
Title: Re: B&SR coach 11 at Boothbay
Post by: Eric Bolton on August 19, 2008, 10:35:33 PM
They did a great job! Its just to bad it isn't still in its original baggage car configuration.
Title: Re: B&SR coach 11 at Boothbay
Post by: Bill Sample on August 26, 2008, 04:29:44 PM
I agree it would be nice to see a restored baggage/mail car, but it could always be restored to its original type in the future.  For the present I would think its third life as a straight coach ( it had been a combine for awhile as well) is far more useful for the Boothbay operation. 
Title: Re: B&SR coach 11 at Boothbay
Post by: Mike Fox on August 26, 2008, 09:57:38 PM
I don't know the exact date when the conversion was made, but I bet it has spent atleast a third of it's life as a coach. And it was "modified" in a shop that will probably never modify an original car again. So there is some history in it being in a coach configuration too.
Title: Re: B&SR coach 11 at Boothbay
Post by: John Kokas on September 28, 2008, 01:14:02 PM
Are there any blueprints that exist for any of the passenger equipment?  Would be a really great project to "recreate" an original coach or combine.  Long term project of course....................
Title: Re: B&SR coach 11 at Boothbay
Post by: Wayne Laepple on September 28, 2008, 01:23:05 PM
I believe the plans, or at least some of them, for WW&F coach "Vassalboro" and triple-combine "Tacconet" are on hand. Long term projects.....
Title: Re: B&SR coach 11 at Boothbay
Post by: Stewart "Start" Rhine on September 28, 2008, 02:01:23 PM
Many car plans from the Jackson & Sharp works survive at the Hagley Museum in Wilmington, Delaware.  The plans for the WW&F three door baggage/mail car and the B&SR three door baggage/mail car are among them.  The two cars were very similar in design and construction.  There are reduced plans in the back of Bob Jones' books on the WW&F, "Two Feet to Tidewater" and B&SR "Two Feet to the Lakes".  As Wayne said the baggage/mail car would be good for a "long term" project.  I really like the looks of those cars, one would look great tied to the tank of number 9.   The car would give us an example of an RPO that we could use to show visitors how the system worked.
Title: Re: B&SR coach 11 at Boothbay
Post by: John Kokas on September 28, 2008, 02:10:05 PM
I'm not far from the Hagley. I'll have to put it on my "to-do" list to go do some research and see what I can find.  Maybe some coach or parlor car plans still exist.  The hardest part would be remaking all the "pattern" pieces for the woodwork and castings but imagine the possibilities of being able to build "new" cars in the future..... Not only for the WW&F but others as well.  Looks like I'd have something to keep me busy when I retire... ;D
Title: Re: B&SR coach 11 at Boothbay
Post by: Dave Crow on September 29, 2008, 12:34:02 PM
I purchased copies of the drawings available from the Hagley Museum or the Delaware State Archives.  I have the framing plans for Combine 1, Coach 2 or 3, and Combine 6.  The plans do not show end elevations nor do they show underbody details such as brake rigging.  While the framing plans are nice, it is the small details such as window dimensions, interior trim, and clerestory roof construction that will take more time to replicate.  And, as mentioned in this thread, the castings required will take some time.
Title: Re: B&SR coach 11 at Boothbay
Post by: Reuben Bailey on November 22, 2008, 07:00:24 PM
Hello Stewart, you mention red lead, which is in fact exactly what was used, and was also used by boat builders on wooden hulls.
To my knowledge, red lead is still available for commercial and marine use.  I worked for a few years on the Schooner Heritage, out of Rockland, and she is entirely primed in red lead paint.  I don't know if it makes sense to use it, or if it would even fall under the industrial category at a museum, but a sample could probably be obtained to try and get a more accurate color if this is desired.  The attached picture shows the bowsprit of the Heritage with a large area of it covered in red lead.  Is this the color that others remember?
For what it is worth.
All the best,
Reuben Bailey