W.W.&F. Discussion Forum

The Original W&Q and WW&F: 1894-1933 => Original Railway => Topic started by: Paul Levesque on April 11, 2016, 02:35:19 AM

Title: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: Paul Levesque on April 11, 2016, 02:35:19 AM
A little big project I have been working on is converting any maps I can into drawing files that can be converted into files that can be viewed in google maps and google earth and can be modified using more advanced software.

The first map I want to present is that of the W&Q crossing of the Maine Central Railroad Belfast Branch.  The map is derived from a photo mosaic of the original plans dated November 1897.  I also have jpg and pdfs of these with more details that I can e-mail, so message me and they will come your way.  They are print quality and formatted to be printed on 36X48 and cropped to 24X48.  Bring it to Staples, the copyright release is on the plan because some stores make a big deal over having a release.  Get it in black and white and it will cost you about $5.  I plan on hand coloring some that are framing quality and making them available later this summer.

More maps are forthcoming including a map of the entire railroad as built (as closely as can be drawn using a variety of sources), and as proposed (this is drawn in in AutoCAD but needs adjusting to account for the earths curvature).

Enjoy, and let me know of any errors either loading the page or technical.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1CADkRMDCf9yHz9x8rhuLtGZb8aI&usp=sharing (https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1CADkRMDCf9yHz9x8rhuLtGZb8aI&usp=sharing)
Title: Re: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: Tom Casper on April 11, 2016, 03:22:56 AM
I TRIED IT AND THE LINK IS NOT GOOD.  ADDED THE MISSING END AND GOT A

You need permission

We're sorry, but we were unable to send the message.

Please contact the owner directly.

Tom C.
Title: Re: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: Mike Fox on April 11, 2016, 09:58:36 AM
I tried the link and it took me to the crossing, but there wereno added lines for the Narrow Gauge
Title: Re: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: Paul Levesque on April 11, 2016, 11:39:20 AM
Well, that is no good....

Try this one, it was set to private, sorry for that.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1CADkRMDCf9yHz9x8rhuLtGZb8aI&usp=sharing

Title: Re: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: Glenn Christensen on April 11, 2016, 12:40:31 PM
WOW, Paul!

This is the first time I've ever seen a map of the various options for the W&Q and Belfast branch crossing in Burnham.

Sweet!


Thanks and Best Regards,
Glenn
Title: Re: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: Mike Fox on April 11, 2016, 04:20:54 PM
Awesome. I was up there a few years ago, and this matches what I discovered.
Title: Re: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: James Patten on April 11, 2016, 05:49:58 PM
If you scroll further north a little bit, you find what looks like could be grading alongside the west bank of the Sebasticook River, going almost all the way to Newport, which I theorize to be W&Q grading. 
Title: Re: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: Paul Levesque on April 11, 2016, 06:09:22 PM
So, the most exciting part for me when this was merged was that the southern end matched perfectly with the trail that runs in a near perfect tangent towards Unity Plantation and that the stone wall indicated on the map fell right where that tree line is.

The survey in the archives has the 0+0 station (red line) as being about where the house with the blue roof is on the north side of the Troy Road.  From there a preliminary survey (blue line) puts the 8+0 station (800') on the island and 12+00 on the land between the river and North Main Street across from the entrance to the log yard close to the river.
Title: Re: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: Paul Levesque on April 11, 2016, 06:43:55 PM
The map on the link has been updated to show the Pittsfield preliminary as shown on the Burnham to Albion plot.  Notes were added as well.
Title: Re: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: Philip Marshall on April 11, 2016, 07:11:33 PM
Wow, thank you for doing this! I have read the Railroad Commissioners' report of the crossing dispute but that didn't include any maps, so this finally puts it all in perspective.
Title: Re: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: Paul Levesque on April 13, 2016, 10:46:37 PM
The map has been updated.  Click a link above to get to the map.

1.)  The preliminary north of the Troy Road has been added.
2.)  The extension to Burnham from Albion has been added.
     The tangents were added using 2 foot contours and aerial images and in some cases using dimensions from the 1894 survey.
     The curves were added using the curvature information from the 1894 survey.  The radii and the span of the arcs are close, and in some cases exactly what was on the 1894 survey.  Diversions occur because of projection and topography sometimes but the data is very close.  You can assume broader curves are generally 2-4 degree curves (2864' to 1432' radius) and the sharper curves are 8 or 10 degree curves (716'-573' radius).

More is coming, please enjoy!

Title: Re: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: Paul Levesque on April 16, 2016, 06:21:34 PM
UPDATE:

1.)  Segment from just south of China Village to Albion has been added.
2.)  Segment from just north of Coles Crossing to Weeks Mills has been added including the wye.
 - Any input on the location of the back leg of the wye please let me know, the contours are a little ambiguous in that area so I have added my best interpretation based on what was given on the ICC maps in Narrow Gauge in the Sheepscot Valley.
3.)  Notes on variations in the map as drawn and the aerial photography have been noted.
4.)  A detail of the Horseback Road overhead crossing showing the topography in 2' intervals.
5.)  The approximate location of the China-Palermo town line was added to show the relationship of the station location to the location of the Branch Mills Village and the Town of Palermo.

Again, input and notes are welcome.
NEXT- Portions of the Winslow Branch, The existing bridge abutments over the Maine Central in Winslow and the possible extension over the Kennebec.

Enjoy
Paul
Title: Re: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: Paul Levesque on April 21, 2016, 10:14:52 PM
UPDATES

1.)  The Winslow Branch has been added in its entirety.
- There may be some variances in this.  The tangents were found using 2ft contours, aerial images, and CIR (Color Infrared) which makes some of the differences in vegetation really stand out.  Curves were drawn to fit based on the 2ft contours and aerial images using standard curves from 1 through 16 degrees.

2.)  The spur to the American Woolen Company Mill.
-  Referencing the maps from V3 of Narrow Gauge in the Sheepscot Valley and the layout of buildings and 2ft contours the approximate location of the spur into the mill yard was drawn.

NOTES:
Where the ROW crosses the Getchell Corner Road (also shown as Bog Road and Pope Avenue) the WW&F crossed the tracks of the AWG (later LA&W) Street Railway. The electric railroad ran parallel to the road along the south side of the ROW into the main village.  The crossing with the electric railroad would have been directly across the street from the East Vassalboro station which is the silver metal roofed structure at about a 30degree cant to the main roadway.  I will correct the line in this are to more closely match existing property lines, but this is pretty close.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1CADkRMDCf9yHz9x8rhuLtGZb8aI&usp=sharing

Paul
Title: Re: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: Paul Levesque on April 28, 2016, 06:44:23 PM
Does anyone have coordinates (approximate) of the TOM south switch and the theorized road crossing discussed in other areas of the forum?
Title: Re: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: Paul Levesque on April 28, 2016, 08:26:16 PM
Changes and updates.

Several points of interest and notes have been removed to make room for the additional layers added today.

The line should be complete:
Wiscasset to Albion
Weeks Mills to Winslow
Burnham Extension
Pittsfield Preliminary

While working on the Wiscasset to Weeks Mills segment I noticed that there were a couple of locations where the survey and the as-built was off more than it normally is, these deviations in the survey were added as a separate layer to the map to show how the original survey had the line laid out and how it was actually built.

1.)  Probably the best known was the route around the Head Tide Church.  This included a compound 5 to 3 degree curve south of the church.
2.)  The mud flats at Wiscasset.
3.)  North Whitefield.  The topography tells a different story than the simple tangent in the survey.

Title: Re: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: Ed Lecuyer on April 28, 2016, 08:34:16 PM
The TOM siding south switch was originally at:
44.094990° N, 69.624326° W (approximate)

The new south switch is slightly south of there; now at:
44.094831° N, 69.624942° W (nearly exact location of frog; data collected using RTX-corrected GPS, accuracy +/- 2ft)

There is no visible evidence (that I have found) of the road where it would have crossed the ROW. The "Camp Road" crossed at:
44.095549° N, 69.624738° W (approximate)
Title: Re: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: Paul Levesque on April 28, 2016, 09:59:36 PM
Thank you Ed.
Title: Re: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: Paul Levesque on May 10, 2016, 10:27:05 PM
So, there will be some revisions needed but, the W&Q yard has been added to the map based on the map from NGSV V1.

Paul
Title: Re: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: Glenn Byron on May 23, 2016, 08:29:32 PM
  I was at Tobey's Store on Route 3 Palermo / S. China Line last Saturday.  There were several four wheelers gassing up there and I was able to talk with some of the local club Members.  They said there was a 25 Mile Loop from there that included some of the WW&F Right of Way which they had been repairing that day.  It also includes some power line travel, but they said old men like me could do the loop.  I want to do this!!  Anybody running it that would let an old man tag along? Love this map. Thanks
Title: Re: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: John Kokas on May 23, 2016, 10:25:28 PM
Is that the Wiscasset yard or another?  When I get on all I see is the end of the line at the old middle school.   ???
Title: Re: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: Paul Levesque on May 26, 2016, 03:04:57 AM
Try it now.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1CADkRMDCf9yHz9x8rhuLtGZb8aI&usp=sharing
Title: Re: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: Glenn Christensen on May 26, 2016, 02:38:03 PM
Thanks for your diligence in preparing your W&Q maps, Paul!

They are a wonderful resource!!!

Best Regards,
Glenn
Title: Re: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: Bob Holmes on July 28, 2016, 03:13:01 PM
I'm new to this.  What are the red lines on the maps?  Thanks.
Title: Re: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: Glenn Christensen on July 28, 2016, 06:10:57 PM
Hi Bob,

The red line depicts the W&Q's proposed extension from the end-of-track in Albion north to Burnham.  The narrow gauge roadbed was actually graded and track laid from Albion to the site of a proposed level crossing with Maine Central (MEC) just south of Burnham.  But the MEC, seeing the W&Q as a competitor, denied the narrow gauge, the right to cross their line at grade.  Rectifying this situation would have required either a lengthy and expensive court battle or a lengthy mainline ramp on both sides of the proposed overhead crossing. The W&Q was in no position to do either, so Albion remained as the W&Q's northern terminus.

The old right of way still survives, but I have not tracked if myself and can only assume that it has become badly impassible  in at least some few places.  

Perhaps someone else has more information on the current status of the old Burnham extension.  


Best Regards,
Glenn
Title: Re: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: Fred M. Cain on March 28, 2018, 06:10:26 PM
Hi Bob,

The red line depicts the W&Q's proposed extension from the end-of-track in Albion north to Burnham.
The old right of way still survives, but I have not tracked if myself and can only assume that it has become badly impassible  in at least some few places. 

Perhaps someone else has more information on the current status of the old Burnham extension. 

Best Regards,
Glenn

Yes, indeed.  I am new at this, too.  What do the sections in red indicate?  The above explanation cannot be complete because there are several short sections indicated in red between downtown Wiscasset and State Route 32.  The Albion - Burnham section now appears to be indicated in white.  Do the red lines indicate sections where the ROW has been completely obliterated? 

This seems to be a really fascinating area.

Regards,
Fred M. Cain,
Topeka, IN
Title: Re: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: Benjamin Richards on March 28, 2018, 08:01:48 PM
When you pop open the map, there should be a legend on the left side that shows each section with some colors. In case there isn't, here's a brief description of the colors you're interested in:

Burnham Extension is largely white, plus a few small sections of different colors around the Belfast and Moosehead Lake RR crossing that show the various alignments that were proposed.

The bottom-most red piece indicates the Wiscasset yard/shop/wharf area.

The rest of the red pieces indicate the "as-surveyed" alignment, in places where it deviates from the "as-built" alignment:
While working on the Wiscasset to Weeks Mills segment I noticed that there were a couple of locations where the survey and the as-built was off more than it normally is, these deviations in the survey were added as a separate layer to the map to show how the original survey had the line laid out and how it was actually built.

1.)  Probably the best known was the route around the Head Tide Church.  This included a compound 5 to 3 degree curve south of the church.
2.)  The mud flats at Wiscasset.
3.)  North Whitefield.  The topography tells a different story than the simple tangent in the survey.

Nothing on this map indicates the current status of the ROW regarding ownership, integrity, etc.

HTH
Title: Re: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: Reg Gilbert on March 28, 2018, 11:35:31 PM
I'll try to fill you in in the next day or so. When I can get to a real keyboard.
What is the "map" referred to?Is it available on line or elswere??
    Reg Gilbert
      Fairfield
Title: Re: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: Jeff Schumaker on March 29, 2018, 01:13:13 PM
Look at the bottom of the initial message of this thread. There is a link to the map. Zoom in to get the details.

Jeff S.
Title: Re: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: Reg Gilbert on March 29, 2018, 08:38:57 PM
Thanks for link to map.I got out my trusty Gazeteer to tell all I know about Albion Burnham ext ,but can't. find
a "reply" button when at the computer. I'd rather not ues tablet.I usually get my work to disappear.
   SOS Reg. Gilbert
Title: Re: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: Paul Levesque on March 30, 2018, 06:02:51 PM
Hey guys, I got an update to this that is 95% complete so please, be patient because this next release I pretty big. The new update will have a new link as well.

Some updates due very soon...
1.) Location of the Wiscasset and Quebec will be amended to follow the actual grade.
2.) Location of the W&Q will have some locations amended to show 'as surveyed' vs. 'as built'.
3.) Location of the Waterville and Wiscasset, aka The Winslow Branch, will be updated to follow the actual grade.
4.) Location of the W&W will have some locations amended to show 'as surveyed' vs. 'as built'. (Not that many on this one.)
5.) The location, from Farmington to Waterville of the Franklin, Somerset, and Kennebec!

    This one, let me tell you, was a pain in the buttocks. This will show well over 3 weeks of work in just mapping the line not counting the research, record chasing, calculations, excel nightmare, adjusting, correction, and all other impediments to actually getting this one to work.

    I will note here that the FS&K survey was a nightmare...a complete nightmare. Details will be gone into later, but with a survey like this it's a wonder the Farmington to New Sharon segment was graded. To say that the survey was preliminary would be an exaggeration!

A little side note...
The FS&K was surveyed in two parts.
    The first segment was from Farmington to New Sharon, starting at surveyors station -04+45 in the MEC yard to the crossing of the Sandy River in New Sharon at 471+14. ---8.92 miles---

  The second segment was from New Sharon to Waterville, starting at surveyors station 00+00 on the cape Cod Hill Road in New Sharon and ending at 1508+00 on Western Avenue in Waterville. ---28.56 miles---

The W&W survey was starting in Waterville at 00+00 on Western Avenue and worked its way TO Weeks Mills and not FROM Weeks Mills at 844+80. ---16.00 miles---
Title: Re: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: Reg Gilbert on March 30, 2018, 09:35:20 PM
Concerning  the ROW Albion to Burnham:It shows up on; "Satellite map of the World :google. From Rt 100 go East on Troy Rd to
Battle St. ,which is as far as I've travelled on ROW.Loggers have it blocked to stop 4X4 rutting, etc. You can follow  ROW South. Crank up resolution and scroll along...If it fades back off resolution  and you'll be able to pick up the line.As you go further South ROW is easier to see as it sees more use for logging. North of Leonard Rd (County or Winnecook Rd.) crossing the bog shows some of the work, though it
can't be seen from South side of bog .This lot is owned by Bingham Land Company, which has used ROW  in its' operations for years.
 South of Leonard Rd. a mile or so the land is owned by EDBessey to Rte. 139. Some sections are impassible due to water,but brave souls do try, and have found passage around the bad spots. Blowdowns are usually gone by Nov.
Bessey crews cut East of ROW Accessing By extending Palmer Rd to the West.
Permission required for Bessey and Bingham Properties.
The ROW has been used by skidders and although rutted has a sound base after all these years.Most signs of wood bog crossings have disappeared.
Another point: From Rte 139 crossing about half a mile South on left a small farmhouse used to have a rack with a few lengths of
rail. Years ago owned by Wiggins . Related to lady who wrote books??? I don't know about 139 to Albion stretch .Could be open in places
for ATV & sledders.
I wonder if any landowners used RR to haul logs from this area in the few years the line was there.It would have been a good easy way to ship in those days.  Any records would probably be iin Bullwinkle's hat with the rabbit.
A hunting pal says he saw a pile of rail iron in the woods , but has been unable to find again.
Title: Re: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: Mike Fox on March 30, 2018, 11:14:50 PM
Reg,
Where was this rail pile? I have heard of one in Alna that was removed when the land was logged..
Title: Re: Mapping the W&Q and the WW&F
Post by: Reg Gilbert on March 31, 2018, 03:27:49 PM
He's been hunting the area for 60years..Been unable to relocate and gave up looking.
Cutters may have taken them. Or over 30 years ago on a very dry year ROW was passable.in 4 wheel
drive..
Hard to believe they would leave iron behind since. they. were using on Winslow spur.
Has anyone heard. about. rails at Wiggins' ?They were on display in front of farmhouse. on. A rack.