W.W.&F. Discussion Forum

WW&F Railway Museum Discussion => Work and Events => Topic started by: Gordon Cook on January 08, 2016, 08:54:40 PM

Title: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Gordon Cook on January 08, 2016, 08:54:40 PM
While I was enjoying Start's excellent turntable pictorial on FB, I was fascinated by the picture of the table at Albion, where the left most queen post has evidently been forced away from where it was supposed to be.
The comment was that the Wiscassett turntable had an extra tie rod to prevent this.
That is a bit confusing to me. I would have expected the tension in the rod to force the posts toward the middle, hence the angling of the posts outward to counteract that tendency.
Does anyone know why this might happen? Might it have something to do with the stresses on the table when the engine is run on or off?
More importantly, should we understand that before we get started on the turntable?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Harold Downey on January 08, 2016, 09:49:04 PM
Well, as a matter of fact, I do know.   The queen post angle if set at the optimal angle for the outer truss rods would have a resultant force that is directly in line with the queen post --pure compression.  Unfortunately the optimal angle for the inner truss rods is different, since the inner rod is at a steeper angle down to its anchor.  Thus one has to compromise; the best angle for the taller queen post is not the same as that for the shorter one.

The Portland Co. drawing shows that they split the difference.  The angle is set so that the upper tension rod tends to push the tall queen post outward, and push the short post inwards.   This requires the additional tension rod as shown in the pictures to resist the outward force, and the compression beam that you see at the base of the queen posts to resist the inward force on the short queen posts.

Since I did a stress analysis on the turntable, I can state that actual amount of outward or inward force is not that great - only a few hundred pounds.  The load on the inner truss rod turns out to be much higher than the outer, and when the locomotive is halfway on the turntable, the outer truss rod tension drops a lot, and the inner truss rod tension is at its highest.  In fact in every load case I analyzed, the inner truss rod has the highest tension.

So, for our turntable, I chose the queen post angle to be a compromise as well, but biased slightly toward the optimal angle for the shorter queen post.  The tension rod on the taller queen posts is absolutely required, and is in our design.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Gordon Cook on January 08, 2016, 10:49:14 PM
Verrry Interesting, Alan, Thank you!

Can I ask some follow up questions :)

Would a better compromise be to have 2 sets of posts, one for each truss rod so then each could be set at the ideal angle?
I suspect the answer is no since that wasn't part of the original design.

Why did they not use the "Gallows" design?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Harold Downey on January 09, 2016, 02:59:20 AM
I didn't really consider making the queen post angles different.  As you mentioned, the goal was to replicate the Wiscasset turntable, using the Portland Co. drawing as a reference.  Since I found no real design/stress issues with making both posts the same angle, I saw no reason to consider anything else.     

Not being a bridge design expert, I can't really comment on one design vs. another. 

Overall, this turntable bridge is a very robust structure.  The stresses in all the main elements are very low.  The primary limiting factor was deflection, which was governed by the longitudinal beams.  The truss elements function to keep the loads on the perimeter rail and wheels near zero once the locomotive is centered.  In fact if you look at some of the historical photos, there is only a partial perimeter rail. 

Finally, the bridge would still function without the truss, but it would be harder to turn.

For the stress analysis, I used the biggest WW&F locomotive as the design load --the 26 ton #6. 

It was quite fun to look at the historical photos and analyze the changes from the Portland Co. drawing.  Folks have noticed the tie rod between the queen posts so far.  There are quite a few other differences, some of them subtle.  Our turntable will be very much like the historical photos. 
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Alan Downey on January 09, 2016, 04:17:38 AM
While the turntable hasn't been a secret, those of us involved have kept it largely under the radar, not wanting to distract from more current projects. Now that the turntable is at the forefront of activities for the coming year, I suppose it's time to shed some light on the project, it's design, and what's been done so far.

Two years ago Jason and Dave Crow were discussing ways of forming the ring rail, and spider rails. Dave got in touch with me to see if I would be interested in getting started on the patterns so that we'd be in a better position to get going on the turntable when the time was right. So he sent me a scan of the Portland Co. drawing, and I started to scale it to design the patterns. It just so happened that my dad was visiting me at school that weekend, and we broke out my copies of NGSV just to scope out the design. It wasn't more than an hour or two later that he was drawing things up in Autocad, trying to reconcile the pictures and the plans. Dave and Jason indicated that nobody had yet set upon designing it, so I talked my dad into taking it on.

During the winter and spring of 2014, I made the patterns for the center pivot, and the wheel which would be used for the spider bearing, and outer supports, and Harold worked through the design and the stress analysis. As he said previously, the whole thing will be and look very much like the original. For the structure of the turntable itself, there were very few compromises made, in order to maintain the integrity of such a recognizable feature of the original railway. However, there was at least one design flaw with the original Portland design which needed to be addressed. If you look at any pictures of the Wiscasset or Albion tables, you can see substantial blocking placed inboard of the cross beam which the inner truss rod is mounted to. The truss rod is trying to tilt that beam inwards, and the only thing holding it in place is the tension of the bolts holding it to the main beams. The blocking which the railway added was a divergence from the Portland Co. Plans, and was their effort to keep the cross beam from folding inwards, and you can see that it was only marginally successful. The mounting configuration of the outer truss rod is much more appropriate, in the way that it's load is directed through the main beams. In order to achieve a similar loading configuration for the inner truss rod, we designed a large bracket for the truss rod to pass through, and be tightened against. The bracket will be set into and bolted to the main beam, and butted against the offending crossbeam. This should shift the majority of the load onto the main beam, and prevent the cross beam from being rolled over. We designed the bracket to be a casting to be within the same spirit as the original designers might have done. My dad made the pattern for this bracket, and it was visible in the Facebook post from earlier this week, that sharp eyed viewers may have noticed was not in the original plans. All of these patterns were delivered to the museum in the summer of 2014, with a mess of #11 patterns as well.

My role with the turntable largely ended with the patterns. Since then Harold has been refining the design to suit, and creating part and assembly drawings. However we did spend a day last summer gathering up and counting all of the bridge washers on the campus. There were hundreds of them, and we have enough on hand to cover the ~500 which are needed for the turntable.

Now, we're both really looking forwards to the real work getting started. The project is now in the hands of the talented and dedicated on site crew.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Carl Soderstrom on January 09, 2016, 05:19:09 AM
Thanks for the analysis
I was wondering if someone was not trying to adjust the rod
tension without turning the turnbuckle.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Gordon Cook on January 09, 2016, 02:02:29 PM
My apologies, Harold. I clearly was just too excited that you and Alan had already studied and addressed this.
I believe we all are excited to be able to spin our equipment in the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Harold Downey on January 09, 2016, 03:08:16 PM
No problem, Gordon.

I am happy to discuss any aspect of the turntable.

Here's another couple of fun facts about the turntable:  On each end there is a lantern bracket, about 3 feet from the end, to hang a lantern for night operations.    There is also an angled socket on one side at each end to hold a turning pole. 

The turning poles must either have gotten lost, or the force to turn the table got too high, because some historical photos show workers down in the pit pushing on the side of the bridge to turn it.

Harold
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ira Schreiber on January 09, 2016, 05:52:36 PM
What about the issue of water drainage in the pit?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on January 10, 2016, 12:28:33 AM
The bottom of the pit will not be much lower than current elevation, with a catch basin and pipe to cary the water north to the ditch next to track 7. Hoping to get all drainage in before the cement.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ira Schreiber on January 10, 2016, 01:38:10 AM
Thanks. I learned a long time ago that water will not run uphill.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Stephen Piwowarski on January 10, 2016, 05:39:10 AM
Based on the photos it seems like this turntable had much less of a traditional pit and more of what could be called a foundation ring to support the ring rail. In the photos you can see that the ballasted track comes to a level pretty high above the ring while in other places it falls away from it. If I recall correctly, this is similar to the way the SR&RL turntable in Phillips is installed.

Steve
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Carl Soderstrom on January 10, 2016, 06:14:00 AM
Thanks Harold for mentioning the turning pole.
I did not see one and wondered how they grabbed table.

I take it sockets will have to be cast or are they available somewhere?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Harold Downey on January 10, 2016, 03:32:35 PM
Here is a snapshot of the end of the turntable, showing both the turning pole and lantern bracket.  The turning pole socket will be forged from black iron pipe.

Harold
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on January 10, 2016, 09:58:53 PM
Lots of turntables were manual, with the use of push poles. I thought they were permanent fixtures, but the drawings are showing otherwise.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: John Kokas on January 11, 2016, 01:21:31 AM
Many old narrow gauge and shortlines used scrap boiler tubes for their turntable poles.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Joe Fox on January 11, 2016, 02:32:48 PM
The problem with boiler tubes, is they are weak and subject to collapsing or bending. Many of the two footers used solid wood poles, just like the standard gauges because of the rugged durability of them.

A boiler tube with a hollow core may work in ideal conditions, but in the cold, when bearings are stiff or as things shift over time or a not quite equalized load, and the hollow pole will bend.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Carl Soderstrom on January 12, 2016, 03:21:01 AM
Has anyone else seen where there was a square cast pocket at an angle
bolted to the table, then a 4X4 (or 5x5?) was shaved down with a draw knife
or turned to a manageable diameter? I think the square end was cut at a bevel
to get the max wood in the socket.
The wood was Oak, or maybe Maple.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on January 12, 2016, 05:31:26 AM
The "Downey Engineering Consultants" are  invaluable WW&F members.
Their design knowledge, casting formwork,  pilot assembly, coach brake mods, whatever they do, is totally excellent.
Fascinating to follow progress of what they do.
Can't wait for 11's fabrication.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on January 15, 2016, 12:46:03 AM
Some pictures of the original Wiscasset turntable. The original turntables did not have a continuous ring rail at the outer edge of the turntable. There is a continuous inner ring rail under the center of the turntable that forms the bearing assembly the turntable spins on. The outer ring rail is only present where tracks connect to the turntable bridge. In the pictures of the Wiscasset turntable the "pit" originally had a timber retaining wall that was later replaced with concrete. The Albion turntable had nothing around the pit area just the ground sloping into the pit area. Our turntable at Sheepscot will have concrete bulkhead with a piece of ring rail in front of the roundhouse and turntable lead area. The rest of the turntable area will be open like the Albion turntable pit.

You can see the outer ring rail ending past the the last track in the foreground.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74006/wtt2.jpg)

You can see the wheels holding up the turntable on the inner ring rail in this picture.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74006/wtt3.jpg)

The earlier timber retaining wall.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74006/wtt1.jpg)

Albion turntable.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74006/albion_turntable_31.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74006/albion_turntable_21.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Wayne Laepple on January 15, 2016, 01:22:44 AM
I have a couple of questions about the turntable plan. I notice in the photo of the Albion turntable that the rails on the table are laid on timbers parallel to the rails rather than spiked directly to the ties. In looking at the Wiscasset turntable, it's not obvious if that is the case. So that's my question: timber or not? Also, at the points where track emanate from the turntable, is there some sort of "shelf" on which the frame of the turntable would rest to absorb some of the shock of the locomotive entering or leaving the turntable, or do the outer wheels and the ring rail handle all that?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on January 15, 2016, 01:28:42 AM
Wayne the rails are laid on parallel timbers like the Albion turntable. The turntable sits on the outer ring rail when your coming on of off with a locomotive.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on January 15, 2016, 01:38:08 AM
I find it interesting that there is a fence across the doors to the Albion Engine house. This is a post abandonment picture. Suppose this was to keep animals in?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jason M Lamontagne on January 15, 2016, 12:11:14 PM
Somewhere we have a photo of the Wiscasset table w 7x9 rail runners (Harold called them sleepers) laying flat under the rail.  This is as the PoCo drawing shows; in fact the Wiscasset table appears to be exactly like the drawing while Albion may be a little different.  Ours is per the drawing- except that the inner and outer wheels were made a consistent diameter (instead of an 1" different) to eliminate a pattern.

Answering Wayne's question another way- there is an outer ring rail to catch the edge of the table as equipment rolls on; what we're saying is that the outer ring rail is not a full circle; it exists only where tracks enter the table.  That partial ring rail is on concrete- one may view that concrete as equivalent to a bridge abutment.

See ya
Jason
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on January 15, 2016, 01:37:26 PM
Complete circle of cement I hope. That would do two things. Look like Wiscasset, and also prevent movement from frost pushing against the back of the wall, making it lean to the center, causing a big problem over time
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jason M Lamontagne on January 15, 2016, 01:50:04 PM
The current plan is not a full circle- Wiscasset only had a full circle at the end and looking closely, it was merely a retaining wall with no where near enough strength to hold the 'abutment.'  A close look also shows that the 'abutment' and the retaining wall weren't even connected.

We've considered connecting the center pour and 1/4 circle outer pour with 2 vertical contrite ribs- that would address the tipping problem.  We're not too worried about it with the new plan for how to pour- but it's on the table (we can talk in person).

Our new view is that a full outer circle of concrete, large enough to he structurally effective, would not be historically correct and would use dozens of yards of concrete unnecessarily (equating to $1000's).

See ya
Jaso
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Gordon Cook on January 15, 2016, 03:22:07 PM
Further observations:

In Albion the ground around the turntable where you had to walk to push the turntable around looks pretty uneven.
That would make it very difficult to turn the engine, especially in cold weather with snow and ice. I bet shoveling out the turntable pit was a real treat.

Also, on the post abandonment pictures taken at Albion, it looks like there was a wood beam added between the two queen posts.

Something else that I have been pondering about the truss turntable design:
As Harold explained, once the engine is centered the center pivot has all the weight. Without a continuous ring rail that would make putting the engine in just the right place very important!
Are there any tales of turntable mishaps?



.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Greg Klein on January 15, 2016, 03:39:25 PM

Something else that I have been pondering about the truss turntable design:
As Harold explained, once the engine is centered the center pivot has all the weight. Without a continuous ring rail that would make putting the engine in just the right place very important!
Are there any tales of turntable mishaps?



.


  In related musings, do the ring rails "ramp up" or have a beveled edge to facilitate re-railing of the edges of the turntable? I imagine there is some horizontal play even with a perfectly balanced load.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jason M Lamontagne on January 15, 2016, 03:44:18 PM
This design of table actually makes placement less critical.  The inner ring, which takes nearly all the weight (the rest by the center pivot)- once the equipment CoG is within the 11' inner ring circle, the outer ring is unloaded.  It is very forgiving. 
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jason M Lamontagne on January 15, 2016, 04:05:43 PM
We believe we can contour the ground arojnd the circle so the height transitions are easy and not extreme.  As far as cleaning the pit- a closed pit w a ring rail requires jumping in and shoveling out no matter what- to clear the ring rail.  This open pit, w no full outer ring- there's usually no need to shovel, and if there is, you can get in w a tractor to clear snow.

There is a little ramp on the ends of the partial outer ring rail- but the procedure should be:  don't attempt to turn unless the outer wheels are completely off the outer ring rail.  That proves there's no load on it. 

The table trusses will be taken up so that the table will sit off the outer rail when weight is centered on it.

We are VERY excited about this partial put idea-  at least I am- because it's only possible w this particular table design.  This design was common on Maine 2-footers and other smaller, older lines.  The open pit design is a way of showing the way these tables were usually set up.

See ya
Jason
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on January 15, 2016, 09:21:33 PM
I think Jason answered my questions and concerns very well off line, and am anxious to see Harolds new design for the foundation. Excellent blue prints thus far, and very detailed.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on January 16, 2016, 04:17:34 AM
Another view of the Albion turntable.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74006/albiontt1.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Philip Marshall on January 16, 2016, 04:24:19 AM
Nice picture, Brendan. I've never seen that one before.

As a side note, I've always been fascinated by the H.K. Porter-style bell that No. 2 wore in the later years of the railroad. Did it come from W&Q No. 1 maybe?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Carl Soderstrom on January 16, 2016, 05:51:36 AM
Again there appears to be no turning pole.

Is that a locking mechanism on the left side of the table? With a casting with a slot on the abutment?

2X4s tacked on to keep the queen posts from moving? 
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on January 16, 2016, 12:23:09 PM
Looks like it to me Carl. The ground around the pit would make using a pole very difficult. I imagine they pushed on the table itself
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jason M Lamontagne on January 16, 2016, 12:50:24 PM
There's pictures of 2 or 3 crew members in the pit pushing.  I'm quite certain we can do better with landscaping to allow easier use of a pole.  That'll make the open pit a low spot in the terrain; ample drainage will be key (for which there's plans).

Jason
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Harold Downey on January 16, 2016, 03:50:09 PM
The turning pole is clearly visible on the Albion turntable  -- see the last picture on the previous page.  The view here is not the side with the pole.  Both images seem to be the same time period, since both show the scabbed on piece of wood to stabilize the tall queen posts.

Harold
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Rick Rowlands on January 16, 2016, 06:34:34 PM
Looks to me like the left side king post started to slide down and the 2x4s were nailed there to keep it standing as the post is clearly about a foot away from the bend in the truss rod.  Kinda makes me think that the truss rods didn't provide all that much support  to the turntable.

With the droop caused by the weakened truss rod system, and the fact that it had only partial outer ring rails, I wonder if they ran into problems where the outer wheels would drop below the top of the ring rails when they rolled off the ends.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Wayne Laepple on January 16, 2016, 08:16:37 PM
The standard gauge Maryland & Pennsylvania RR had a turntable at Delta, Pa. that was built on a hillside. There was only on track feeding the turntable, which was used to turn engines when the Ma & Pa operated commuter service from Baltimore up to Delta, which was just across the state line. Between 1965 and 1969, it was used occasionally to turn steam locomotives operated by Rail Tours, Inc. that made the journey to Delta from York, Pa. I was a volunteer with Rail Tours from time to time, and I helped turn engines there on two or three occasions. When the table was positioned to accept a locomotive running onto it, the opposite end was probably six to eight feet above the ground. There was only a low concrete wall with the ring rail, and there was only an abutment where the track met the table. Obviously, we had to be in the "pit" to push it around to turn the engine. I have no memory of a turning pole on either end of the turntable. After the railroad was abandoned around 1975, the turntable was donated to the Museum of Transport in St. Louis.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on January 16, 2016, 10:39:56 PM
Wayne according to google this is the Delta PA turntable and there was turning poles on the table at one time.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74006/mapadeltatt.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on January 16, 2016, 10:52:08 PM
A couple turntables without ring rails.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/rrttmonarchtt.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/rltt1.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Wayne Laepple on January 16, 2016, 10:55:09 PM
Yep, that's the Delta turntable. There were no turning poles that I can recall, however. As steep as the drop-off was opposite the entry track, the folks pushing the turntable would have had to stop part way around and go over to the other end to complete the circle. Now I'm going to have to dig out some photos of those 1960's episodes.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on January 16, 2016, 11:05:35 PM
Wayne any chance there used to be a wood catwalk around the turntable.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Philip Marshall on January 16, 2016, 11:41:46 PM
I don't think the steel turntables on the SR&RL at Farmington and Strong had turning poles either, though they did have continuous ring rails. There are many photos of these locations showing crews standing in the pits to push the turntables around.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Wayne Laepple on January 17, 2016, 12:53:44 AM
Well, this is what happens when one attempts to rely on a memory of 50 years ago. It's sometimes wrong. I just looked at a photo in Ron Ziel's "Steam In the Sixties," and sure enough, there are turning poles on the Ma & Pa's Delta turntable. So delete everything I said about the Delta table a few entries up.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Gordon Cook on January 17, 2016, 01:16:57 AM
Wayne, it's way more fun when we remember things the way they should have been instead of the way they actually were. :)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Stephen Piwowarski on January 17, 2016, 03:29:28 AM
It has occurred to me that because of the importance of the center bearing and inner ring in carrying the load, this design must have a pretty beefy foundation under those two components.
That being said, I am curious about the calculations regarding dynamic and static load, soil type, and moisture content. I don't even know if all of those things figure in to the design process, but I am interested in knowing how you decide how big/deep the foundation must be to adequately support the load.

Steve
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mark Spremulli on January 17, 2016, 02:28:18 PM
Been following this topic since its inception. I have one question about the table. What will the purpose be in regular operations besides just turning the locomotives to go into the future roundhouse. Has anyone worked out what the turntable's roll would be?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ken Fleming on January 17, 2016, 02:56:48 PM
One thing about the turntable is that if its long enough to turn the rolling stock for even weathering.  Of course turning engines for different views works also.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Rick Rowlands on January 17, 2016, 03:32:17 PM
Do you know what the load bearing capacity of the soil is at the turntable location?  When we built our museum building here in Ohio we had a drill rig come out to take core samples, but if you just estimate the bearing capacity based upon the soil type that you have and build a large spread footing then you shouldn't have any problems.   Unless you are blessed with bedrock near the surface to build off of.

Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Fortier on January 17, 2016, 05:23:54 PM
Going by the data on this site (http://"http://www.concretenetwork.com/concrete/footing_fundamentals/why_soils_matter.htm") and the size of the ring rail, some back-of-the-envelope figuring comes up with a bearing capacity in the low-rent neighborhood of 150-170 tons. That's assuming a one-piece slab accommodating the center pivot and ring rail. Seems more than adequate.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Wayne Laepple on January 17, 2016, 10:57:56 PM
I noticed in the picture posted on Facebook today that the ring rail at Wiscasset did not circle the entire turntable pit.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Harold Downey on January 18, 2016, 02:03:29 AM
And if you look closely, you can also make out the lantern hooks on each end - near side on the near end and far side on the far end.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Wayne Laepple on January 18, 2016, 02:39:06 AM
Yes, and I believe I can see the turning pole on this end, right at the very bottom of the photo. And is that it on the other end, that skinny white thing I see?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Philip Marshall on January 18, 2016, 07:51:07 AM
I see the lantern hooks but I don't see a turning pole. Where exactly do you mean, Wayne?

There are a lot of other interesting non-turntable details in the picture as well: the cab roof of a Portland Forney hiding behind boxcar 561, the wooden-railed handcar jigger track and what looks like the bed of a milling machine (with two men sitting on it?) in front of the combine, and the rarely photographed caboose 301.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on January 18, 2016, 02:05:49 PM
Steve P., the soil that far down is going to be virgin blue clay. Very solid stuff
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Harold Downey on January 18, 2016, 02:47:48 PM
I don't see the turning poles either.  The socket on the near end would be just out of the photo. You can see the track lock mechanism on this end -- a bar that is flipped back in the unlocked position in the photo.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Wayne Laepple on January 18, 2016, 03:19:03 PM
Well, I guess I was seeing things, or seeing something and reaching the wrong conclusion. I seem to do a lot of that these days. Anyway, right at the very bottom of the photo, if you drop straight down from the number 501 on the boxcar, I see a slightly angled object that I apparently mistook for the turning pole.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: John Stone on January 18, 2016, 04:47:05 PM
Right behind Waldo
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Joe Fox on January 19, 2016, 12:05:48 AM
For what its worth, I think its best to replicate the roundhouse and table, to the best of our ability, build both structures like the prototype. A solid pit all the way around like the original would be very nice for 2 reasons, its makes the entire ring solid, and because the roundhouse and table will be the focal point of hundreds of pictures and it would follow better follow the museums historic goal.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jason M Lamontagne on January 19, 2016, 12:41:33 AM
With all due respect, Joe, what we're planning is historically correct (edit: well, that deserves a caveat...  See the end).  The Wiscasset  table had a timber retaining perimeter retaining wall for most of its life.  The full perimeter concrete wall seen later on, and what is just below the surface of the ball field now, did not carry a ring rail.  It was not rugged enough to add structure, and as far as we can tell wasn't even connected to the 'abutment,' where tracks ran on to the table.  The structure of the foundation is in the center pour and the abutment pour, which we're planning on connecting with concrete ribs below the surface.  If we truly want to reproduce what was in Wiscasset- what we're planning wouldn't change.  We'd simply add a perimeter of either timber or thin concrete after the fact to keep the surrounding earth from slumping into the pit.

Remember this is not like most turntables we're used to seeing; queen truss tables gather their structure from above the table, meaning the pit is very shallow compared to a "modern" turntable pit.  

Caveat:  Note in the Facebook photo of Wiscasset's table, the timber wall is only maybe 8" tall; the only reason it was needed at all was because the track near one edge, and the hill below the school on the other side, prevented easy landscaping into the pit itself.  So the Wiscasset table always had a retaining wall, but for most of its life it was timber, and it was only there for specific reasons.

See ya
Jason
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Joe Fox on January 20, 2016, 11:44:32 PM
Understood. My concern with a partial pit abutment is the potential for movement in towards the pit which is why I still believe a complete pit ring is stronger than a partial wall. I guess I would have to see the actual plans to better voice concerns. I'm not questioning the structural design, rather the concern for shifting and binding of the table, which may not be an issue being made of wood. But after seeing how much headache turntables can cause, and how easy they can bind up is the biggest draw back.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Joe Fox on January 21, 2016, 12:09:30 AM
And maybe historically correct was the wrong terminology, as I know the it will be historical and be well represented.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Wayne Laepple on January 23, 2016, 03:37:16 PM
The patterns for a number of iron parts for the turntable were delivered to Cattail Foundry in Intercourse, Pa. on Thursday. These included the male and female parts for the pivot, the wheels for the spider, and the end brackets and sheaves for the tension rods. The foundrymen said they'd be ready in a month or so.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Harold Downey on January 23, 2016, 07:16:14 PM
Something cool -- the pattern for the cap for the tall queen posts (which holds the tension rod in place) is an actual casting from the Wiscasset turntable.

Harold
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Fred L. Kuhns on January 23, 2016, 10:11:54 PM
 Harold, The plans or drawings that have been posted show some very long timbers for the turntable. Has the BOD decided what type of wood to be used and will it be from Maine or local?   Fred L. Kuhns           
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jason M Lamontagne on January 23, 2016, 10:35:19 PM
We plan to obtain the (4) 7-1/2 X 16 X 48 foot beams of Douglas Fir from a local company, who will tease them from timbers from the northwest.

It'll probably all be Doug Fir

See ya
Jason
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Fred L. Kuhns on January 23, 2016, 10:43:57 PM
 Jason, Douglas Fir is very good choice. Thanks Fred L. Kuhns
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Philip Marshall on January 23, 2016, 11:36:22 PM
I'm curious, how did a seemingly random piece of hardware such as a queen-post cap (one of the original four?) from the Wiscasset turntable survive to the present day? Where has it been for the last 80 years?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jason M Lamontagne on January 24, 2016, 01:06:35 AM
Well- for the last 20 years it's been upstairs in our shop.  It came with a bunch of other seemingly random, but interesting parts from the Ramsdell farm.

Jason
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Philip Marshall on January 24, 2016, 01:38:59 AM
Thanks, Jason. That answers my question. I still wonder why it was saved in the first place, though -- but regardless of the reason,  I'm glad it was!

Looking at the photos of the original turntable again I realize I should have said one of eight, not one of four.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on January 31, 2016, 08:28:44 PM
For those who don't follow Facebook we were awarded a $10,000.00 grant for turntable construction today. Following text and photos from the museum's facebook page.


FOUNDERS GRANT AWARD - We are pleased to announce that today, the Amherst Railway Society presented the WW&F Railway with the Founders Grant Award for construction of the Sheepscot turntable. The grant amount is $10,000 which is a big help with the project. Many thanks to the ARS for their continued support for rebuilding an important part of Maine's History.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74008/srtt1.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74008/srtt2.jpg)

Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ira Schreiber on January 31, 2016, 08:38:14 PM
Absolutely wonderful.
It proves that success breeds success.
Congratulations.
Ira
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Wayne Laepple on January 31, 2016, 08:48:59 PM
Well done, all.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: James Patten on January 31, 2016, 08:56:20 PM
I hope the bank will accept a check that large!

I don't think we had any idea that this was coming (usually for big grants the grantor gets notified ahead of time), so I was very surprised when I read this.

Kudos go to Ed Lecuyer for his excellent grantwriting work. 
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Terry W. Shirley on January 31, 2016, 10:11:45 PM
That is a Super-Good win!!!
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ed Lecuyer on January 31, 2016, 10:25:44 PM
Hi All,

Yes, I had NO CLUE that this was coming (and usually the big grant recipients at least have some warning.) The Amherst Railway Society has been very generous over the years. Usually they give us a few thousand dollars towards our projects. However, with the continued success of the Springfield show, they are providing more and more donations to very worthy causes. If anyone deserves thanks and praise, it is everyone at the Amherst Railway Society who put on the Springfield show, then give away so much of their profits.

This application was a team effort on our side too - the Harold and Alan Downey, Jason Lamontagne, James Patten, John McNamara, and Stephen Piwowarski all helped with the application. Without them, we would not be celebrating this award.

Go Team WW&F!

-Ed
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Baskerville on January 31, 2016, 11:13:24 PM
I think this grant win speaks very highly of the confidence people and organizations have in our performance and our ability to accomplish what we say we are going to do, in a timely manner. 

It also is a testament to the writing abilities of our grant team headed by Ed Lecuyer and supported by so many others.

A very hardy ‘Well Done!” to all involved.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ira Schreiber on January 31, 2016, 11:14:13 PM
Thanks to all.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Glenn Christensen on February 01, 2016, 05:11:41 AM
Three cheers for the Amherst Railway Society, for the grant writing team, and for all the volunteers who have worked so hard to create a museum that attracts this kind of support!!!

Hip, hip ...


Best Regards,
Glenn
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Gordon Cook on February 01, 2016, 06:03:17 PM
I bet I'm not the only one "spinning" with delight.  :D
Thanks to AHS and to everyone involved.
It is gratifying to see that what is happening in the Sheepscot Valley is being recognized.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Wayne Laepple on February 29, 2016, 07:30:24 PM
Today I picked up about 1700 pounds worth of cast iron from the Cattail Foundry for the Sheepscot turntable project. Included were 20 wheels for the spider and each end of the table, along with eight end caps for the tops of the posts, four blocks for the ends of the truss rods, and the male and female castings for the center pivot. Next week, I'll be bringing them to Sheepscot. Meanwhile, here's a photo of the whole load in the back of a friend's pickup.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ira Schreiber on February 29, 2016, 08:51:29 PM
Great going, Wayne.
Do they require much machining?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Philip Marshall on February 29, 2016, 08:57:22 PM
Thank you, Wayne. They look really nice. I'm really excited about the turntable!
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Wayne Laepple on February 29, 2016, 09:35:15 PM
The wheels will have to be bored for the axles, and the treads will have to be smoothed. There are bolt holes to be drilled in the center pivot castings. I'm not sure about the other parts.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Alan Downey on February 29, 2016, 09:57:26 PM
As Wayne mentioned, the wheels will need work on the bores, and their outer profiles- which are different for the ends vs the spider. The main pivot castings will need some turning to bring the pivot diameters to size, as well as having bolt holes drilled. The big angle blocks will have to have the draft machined away so they can fit against the main beams, and their respective crossbeams correctly. The queen post caps get used without any machining. This is the first time any of mine, or my dad's patterns will be put to the test in a "production" type workflow, and I'm looking forward to hearing from the shop crew on where some of the machining allowances might not have been necessary. I already know of a couple places that I regret leaving work for the shop to do. If they're too much of a pain, Jason knows he can lock me in the machine shop for a couple weeks to suffer through the worst of it...

The castings look really great though. Thank you Wayne, for getting all of that coordinated.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on March 01, 2016, 12:22:53 AM
Will the wheels get tires to prevent wear? Or are they too small?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on March 01, 2016, 09:36:27 PM
When the main deck timbers and the rest are cut and ready, metal parts machined/track ready for install, the Kubota newly re-engined to dig the pit,  I'm guessing an historically correct turntable will appear in a few short weeks, finally making loco/equipment turning a snap.  ;)
Go for it!!
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Piche on March 01, 2016, 10:00:43 PM
Will the wheels get tires to prevent wear? Or are they too small?

Wheels are never too small for tires, Mike. I know of at least one 1.5" scale live steamer that has steel tires on cast hubs, and those are 9" in diameter.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Alan Downey on March 01, 2016, 10:24:45 PM
Hey Mike,

The wheels are meant to be used without tires, so the taper, or lack thereof (depending on location) will be machined directly on the wheels themselves. While cast iron isn't the most wear resistant material, I suspect the relatively small distance which they will travel will make wear a more trivial issue. That's certainly the hope, at least.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on March 02, 2016, 01:01:35 AM
Thanks Alan
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jeff Schumaker on March 06, 2016, 11:50:04 PM
Just getting caught up on a number of threads. This is very impressive planning and work that has been done for this project. Are there any plans for turntable excavation during the Spring work weekend?

Jeff S.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on March 10, 2016, 01:31:48 AM
Wayne delivered the turntable castings today.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/IMG_3920.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/IMG_3917.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on March 10, 2016, 01:53:29 AM
Looks like some switching went on this week...
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Stewart "Start" Rhine on March 10, 2016, 02:33:35 AM
Yes, we had to tell Oily where to find everything when he comes in for the journal pm.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Steve Smith on March 25, 2016, 01:59:06 AM
Here is a “Before” picture of the former parking area at Sheepscot, taken on March 18th from the ramp at the Percival house. Just thought it might be good to have a record of how things looked there prior to the start of the Sheepscot Turntable Project.

(http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t437/StevenSmith3/IMG_2707_zpss6p7zhly.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on April 28, 2016, 03:47:17 AM
We pulled up track 7 today to make way for the turntable. What's left of track 7 will be realigned to become the turntable lead from the yard.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74001/IMG_4564.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74001/IMG_4567.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74001/IMG_4571.jpg)

Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Alan Downey on April 28, 2016, 02:15:12 PM
This is one of the few scenarios where I'm pleased to see us taking up track, instead of putting it down! Thanks for the update, Brendan.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on April 28, 2016, 06:15:47 PM
2016 SWWeek is definitely underway!
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Sample on May 05, 2016, 01:10:14 AM
IIRC the more faded and fat traffic cone is the location of the center of the turntable - please correct me if I'm wrong on this.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on May 05, 2016, 01:22:09 AM
IIRC the more faded and fat traffic cone is the location of the center of the turntable - please correct me if I'm wrong on this.


Your correct that is the center.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on May 24, 2016, 12:28:08 AM
The beams for the turntable are scheduled to arrive Thursday. Two wood cribs have been setup to build the turntable on.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74005/IMG_5198.jpg)

Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on May 27, 2016, 02:45:26 AM
Douglas fir timbers for the turntable arrived in Sheepscot this morning. We still have some oak timbers coming for the queen posts and some other parts.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_5387.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_5389.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_5391.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_5392.jpg)

Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Philip Marshall on May 27, 2016, 04:05:54 AM
Beautiful wood!

Do we know if Douglas fir was what the Portland Co. used originally? I would have thought they'd go for white pine or southern yellow pine, but maybe not.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on May 29, 2016, 09:20:26 PM
What was that unit under the lean-to roof at the shop wall, and why is it now gone?
Just curious.
Those turntable stringers look YUGE!  ;D
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ira Schreiber on May 29, 2016, 10:13:11 PM
A three phase generator.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Harold Downey on May 30, 2016, 12:41:41 AM
Yes, those turntable beams are huge.  48 feet long, 8" wide, 16" tall.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Dwight Winkley on May 30, 2016, 02:15:21 AM
Paul, Generator moved to get it clear of Turntable construction site.
dwight
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on May 31, 2016, 10:52:46 PM
Will turntable construction be delayed for a large while? Are more funds obtainable?  ???
 
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on June 01, 2016, 04:07:27 PM
Turntable construction is moving forward. We sent the foundation work out to bid and the bids we got back were a lot higher than expected. Now we are going to do all the foundation work in house.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on June 09, 2016, 04:06:01 PM
Randy and Phil cutting plywood for the concrete forms for the turntable foundation. The steel rods on the trailer are for the turntable and B&SR 67 rebuild.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/IMG_5570.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/IMG_5567.jpg)

Jonthan started machining the wheel castings for the turntable.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/IMG_5573.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/IMG_5575.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Fred L. Kuhns on June 12, 2016, 07:15:52 PM
 Brendan, Thanks for the pictures of the work starting on concrete forms for the turntable foundation, and machining on the wheel castings. It will be interesting to see the steel rods turned into parts for the turntable and car number 67. Did not realize how much wood was needed for the concrete forms.  Thanks,  Fred L. Kuhns
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Dwight Winkley on June 12, 2016, 09:39:46 PM
The 5/8" steel rods (the smallest size) on the right side of the trailer are for boxcar #67. They go in the car walls to hold the roof to the cars main frame.
dwight
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on June 23, 2016, 01:40:32 PM
Turntable work has been moving along.

The concrete form crew has been busy.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74005/IMG_5633.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74005/IMG_5638.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74005/IMG_5642.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74005/IMG_5648.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74005/IMG_5650.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74005/IMG_5854.jpg)

Rebar assembled for the center bearing footer.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74005/IMG_5846.jpg)

Oak for the queen post assemblies at the sawmill.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74005/IMG_5617.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: James Patten on June 23, 2016, 02:01:04 PM
Those concrete forms look like bee hive boxes.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on June 24, 2016, 01:45:57 AM
Wowee...yooz guys are moving right along.
So with forms/rebar work underway, then excavation comes next week, IIRC.
As a construction wonk, observing this project to completion will be fascinating!
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on June 25, 2016, 02:46:07 AM
Rebar bent up for the center bearing foundation.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74005/IMG_5858.jpg)

Our shiny new rebar bender.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74005/IMG_5860.jpg)

Sorting timbers out.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74005/IMG_5885.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on June 30, 2016, 03:18:38 AM
Working on the main beams.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74008/IMG_5916.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74008/IMG_5979.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74008/IMG_5896.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74008/IMG_5897.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74008/IMG_5901.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74008/IMG_5913.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74008/IMG_5971.jpg)

Rebar work for the center bearing foundation.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74008/IMG_5907.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74008/IMG_5910.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74008/IMG_5935.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74008/IMG_5939.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74008/IMG_5947.jpg)



Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Alan Downey on June 30, 2016, 03:30:49 AM
Thanks for the regular updates, Brendan. I knew it was going to be torture watching the turntable go up from away, but knowing ya'll have a 16" Makita just tops it off! Everything is looking fantastic.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Gordon Cook on June 30, 2016, 07:29:36 PM
Measure three times and .....
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ira Schreiber on June 30, 2016, 07:36:07 PM
No wonder I am having problems.
I cut three times and measure once.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on June 30, 2016, 08:40:30 PM
I was asked this past weekend by a guest what the grid was for. So I started telling him about the turntable. He was still baffled as to the need for the grid work. It was obvious to me pretty quick that no matter what I said, this guy was going to have something to say about it. So after describing how large the center pivot was going to be, he again questioned the need for such gridwork. I then told him that a bridge company reviewed the blueprints and we were following their recommendations. Again he questioned it. So my final answer was we only wanted to do it once.

Then he looked at the wood beams, and asked what they wre for. Again I explained the turntable. To which he said something about how those were made of steel and how using wood was only going to attract insects. So I told him it was Doug Fir, and there would be plenty of preservative to keep the bugs from bothering.

Then he started to ask about the forms..

Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: John McNamara on June 30, 2016, 11:28:42 PM
There are almost as many experts in railroading as there are ties, and trying to talk to either produce similar results. ;D
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Stephen Piwowarski on July 01, 2016, 01:20:45 AM
From his response it sounds like he wan't really familiar with what we are trying to do. Maybe he didn't understand the overall concept. Wouldn't be bad to have a sign with some drawings explaining the overall concept of the project. If he understood that the original was wood and we were building a replica of an original design that does not exist anymore, perhaps he's be more receptive.   ;)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Baskerville on July 01, 2016, 03:57:42 AM
Perhaps a few laminated pictures of the original and the design placed in the little house would offer a good place to send people to explain what we are doing.  Although, in this case, it might not have helped.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Carl Soderstrom on July 01, 2016, 07:21:49 AM
For some people there is a disconnect between input and out put.
Even if you plugged one ear there would be no retention.
You wonder where their keepers are.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on July 01, 2016, 11:17:34 AM
I like that response Carl. Tried explaining we were replicating one originally on the line. Pictures would be a great help, because that is the easiest way to explain what you are doing. Not tell them, show them.

And then I pointed to the future roundhouse...
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on July 02, 2016, 05:17:46 AM
More turntable work.

One set of main beams has been stacked up on their sides to be marked and drilled for bolts that hold the beams together.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6005.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6003.jpg)

Cross members are being cut to length.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_5983.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_5981.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_5998.jpg)

First batch of cross members had their first coat of wood preservative applied today.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_5986.jpg)

Moving timbers around for cutting.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_5992.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Terry W. Shirley on July 02, 2016, 08:57:51 PM
That chainsaw attachment is cool. I never knew it was available for a Skilsaw.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Carl Soderstrom on July 05, 2016, 06:29:11 AM
What are you using for Green Treating?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on July 08, 2016, 01:25:55 AM
What are you using for Green Treating?

 Copper Naphthenate
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Baskerville on July 08, 2016, 01:46:40 AM
I see someone painted the tractor with Copper Napthenate also.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on July 09, 2016, 03:13:57 AM
More turntable progress.

Rebar plan with the different foundation areas marked.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74005/tt%20rebar.jpg)

Rebar panels for the concrete beams that connect the center bearing support and the retaining wall / ring rail support in front of the roundhouse area.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6247.jpg)

Rebar hoops bent up that tie into the panels above.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6251.jpg)

Rebar cage for the center bearing done.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6260.jpg)

The third bundle of rebar the pieces of the left are whats left of the second bundle.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6253.jpg)

Cutting the last of the cross beams.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6268.jpg)

Every cross beam is getting three coats of wood preservative along with the main stringers. The turntable won't stay green after a couple months the  wood will weather a shade of brown.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6270.jpg)

Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Steve Smith on July 09, 2016, 03:35:53 AM
Thanks so much for these progress shots Brendan.

Say, I just noticed that the preservative color goes quite well with Harry's roof!
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on July 10, 2016, 01:59:04 AM
More rebar was cut and bent today. I believe we only have one more set of hoops to bend up.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74005/IMG_6333.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Chuck Watford on July 13, 2016, 05:35:40 PM
Great work, I check the forum every day to see the latest progress. Can you tell me about the center spider, is it a cast piece, a weldment, or what? Can you post the prints? Thanks, enjoying this very much.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Harold Downey on July 13, 2016, 06:28:16 PM
Here you go, the spider is an assembly with three concentric rings or hoops, and radial axles.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Chuck Watford on July 13, 2016, 08:17:33 PM
Thanks! The spider wheels in the photo in the 2nd page of this thread appear to have a flange and to be running on a rail, is this correct and will you be doing the same?
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/wheels.JPG)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on July 14, 2016, 04:30:24 AM
Excavating for the turntable foundation Wednesday 7/13.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6408.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6415.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6419.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6451.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6490.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6499.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6518.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6540.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6543.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6558.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6565.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6573.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6583.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6589.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6592.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6601.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6605.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6612.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6671.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6683.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: John McNamara on July 14, 2016, 04:45:26 AM
Brendan,

Another set of great pix! I notice in the last one a pipe of some sort in the lower foreground. Is that the water line or the telephone/alarm line?

-John
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on July 14, 2016, 04:52:24 AM
That was the water pipe to the shop. The phone and alarm lines to the house suffered a similar fate. We ran temporary phone and alarm lines to the house today. We will put in permanent telco lines and fix the water line when the concrete work is done.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Carl Soderstrom on July 14, 2016, 06:28:36 AM
That is some hole.
I bet you are glad it did not have to be done with pick & shovel and scraper pan with horse
like the old days.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Dave Crow on July 14, 2016, 11:50:41 AM
Wow - Jeff does great work.  The exposed soil appears like it should give good bearing to the foundation. 

The edge of the turntable looks like it will just edge past the shop extension's wall; how close will it be?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Joe Fox on July 14, 2016, 12:09:13 PM
Any chance we can save the fill for the wash outs on the mountain?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on July 14, 2016, 01:52:20 PM
  The edge of the turntable looks like it will just edge past the shop extension's wall; how close will it be?

The bottom of the hole is approximately 5 ft bigger than the finished concrete work so we have room to work. The top of the hole has an additional step back to keep the hole from collapsing.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on July 14, 2016, 02:00:33 PM
Any chance we can save the fill for the wash outs on the mountain?

Most of the material removed from the excavation would not make good fill for the washouts. You have to dig down to about five feet to get to good hard clay. The contractor hauled about 280 yds of material off site and left the rest for backfill were we dont need to use gravel or sand.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on July 14, 2016, 04:15:23 PM
I had asked for some to stay on site for use in water run-off control around Sheepscot. One load would probably do it. But there are ditches to dig yet so perhaps those will yield enough.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Baskerville on July 14, 2016, 06:26:25 PM
So, how deep is the turntable pit on the west side? 
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: James Patten on July 14, 2016, 11:48:55 PM
That hole is really big.  It's around 6 feet deep.  This afternoon Jeff was putting in a stone base. 

I really wish we'd held on the material - it would have been useful somewhere eventually.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on July 15, 2016, 12:21:33 AM
Bill the bottom of the hole in the pictures is about 7 1/2 feet below the bottom of the siding on the shop building. We have a benchmark screwed onto the side shop at finished rail height. There is 12 inches of stone going in the bottom of the hole and the finished grade will end up at 87 inches below rail height.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on July 15, 2016, 04:22:59 AM
More excavation pictures from Thursday 7/14.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6692.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6699.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6705.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6711.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6715.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6721.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6724.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6733.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6739.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6744.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on July 15, 2016, 11:16:48 AM
Any plans on putting something on the stone to prevent the cement from seeping into it?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Baskerville on July 15, 2016, 12:21:40 PM
On my foundation projects in Virginia the concrete is poured directly onto the stone (gravel in Virginia).

I am curious, why are there three spiders of steel to the three roundhouse tracks, but not one to the lead track from the south yard?

Bill
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Harold Downey on July 15, 2016, 01:39:55 PM
The three "spiders" (actualy beams) merely connect the full arc of the outer ring foundation to the center pedestal; one at each end and one in the middle.  The span of the arc is about 90 degrees and accommodates three roundhouse tracks plus the lead track from the yard.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Philip Marshall on July 15, 2016, 06:57:21 PM
The drawing of the spider reminded me that I've been told the current SR&RL turntable at the Old Stone Fort in Phillips incorporates the spider from the original P&R turntable, which was another Portland Company product of similar if not identical design to the one we're building. (The original Old Stone Fort turntable was never actually scrapped but was just left to rot away in situ, and I've seen pictures suggesting the wood was still partially intact as recently as the 1970s.) If this information is correct then I wonder if it might be worth going up to Phillips to examine the spider, as it's likely the only surviving example of its type.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Sample on July 17, 2016, 12:58:27 PM
Looks like a dry summer at Sheepscot so far - let's hope that continues for the sake of the turntable pit crew.  (having memories of working on the carbarn during mud season!)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ira Schreiber on July 17, 2016, 02:59:00 PM
Please do not mention mud and the carbarn in the same sentence.
It was one of my most embarrassing moments.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Eric Larsen on July 17, 2016, 08:18:30 PM
Looks like Mulligan's steam shovel to me.   ;D
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: John Kokas on July 17, 2016, 10:17:41 PM
Eric, the same thought went through went through my head.  Loved that book when I was a kid.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Pete "Cosmo" Barrington on July 18, 2016, 12:21:03 AM
Oh, me too!  ;D
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on July 18, 2016, 01:00:44 AM
Sump pump was working this morning after our shower. Water from the shop roof drains into the pit, then the sump pump lifts it out. Pictures do nothing as to how impressive the hole is in person.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on July 19, 2016, 01:23:08 AM
The rebar cage for the center bearing was placed in the hole today and work was started on assembling the rest of the rebar. Once all the rebar is in we can put the forms up for the footers and start pouring concrete.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74003/IMG_6935.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74003/IMG_6938.jpg)

Checking that center bearing rebar cage is the right place.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74003/IMG_6939.jpg)

Starting on the rest of the rebar.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74003/IMG_6949.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74003/IMG_6978.jpg)

Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Dave Crow on July 19, 2016, 12:12:06 PM
Great progress!  When and where will the drainage pipes be placed?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Greg Klein on July 20, 2016, 01:39:20 PM
This is some fantastic stuff!  Hope to make it up soon!
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Win Nowell on July 20, 2016, 03:33:31 PM
I am confused. Is this not going to be a 360 degree turntable? Is there going to be loop track somewhere to turn the equipment? I never gave it much thought but I guess they had no way of turning equipment at Wiscassett or did they? A wye somewhere?

Win Nowell
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: John Kokas on July 20, 2016, 04:24:10 PM
Win,

I'm pretty sure that the turntable will be a full 360 deg., it's just hard to visualize with the current foundation pattern.  WW&F turntables were full rotation but there was also a wye at Weeks Mills.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on July 20, 2016, 04:28:01 PM
Win,
What you are seeing here is the center support, and the wings that go from it to the retaining wall (bottom photo) where the Roundhouse and formerly track 7 will meet with the turntable. Everything else, turntable included, is above ground. There is no retaining wall that goes completely around the turntable, but the turntable will be able to make a complete swing.

The reason for the wings is to keep the center pivot and retaining wall alaigned to prevent future issues.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Win Nowell on July 20, 2016, 05:04:43 PM
OK Mike - that makes me feel better! There does need to be a way to turn things around for wheel wear etc. I guess I'm just not that familiar with the ways of 2 footers!
Win Nowell
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Joe Fox on July 20, 2016, 05:06:40 PM
This will be a replica of the original table in Wiscasset. The wing rail will be constructed on the ground, thus not requiring a full foundation all the way around.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on July 20, 2016, 07:56:19 PM
To clarify, the outer ring rail will only be where the foundation is, where something would come on and off the table. The center bearing will take all weight while turning, which is why it is so significant in size.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Myers on July 21, 2016, 02:04:32 AM
Really ?

Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jason M Lamontagne on July 21, 2016, 02:21:02 AM
See photos of the Albion turntable for clear evidence of the partial outer rail design.  Wiscasset was the same way, however the earth retaining wall, first timber and later concrete, makes it harder to discern.  The Albion arrangement makes the system clear.

See ya
Jason
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on July 21, 2016, 03:55:58 AM
Foundation progress.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74001/IMG_7002.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74001/IMG_7007.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74001/IMG_7045.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74001/IMG_7049.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74001/IMG_7051.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74001/IMG_7055.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74001/IMG_7057.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74001/IMG_7061.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74001/IMG_7065.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74001/IMG_7083.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74001/IMG_7091.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jason M Lamontagne on July 21, 2016, 11:31:22 AM
I believe Dave asked about drainage.

The bottom of our footer is a good 30" below what the local watershed is capable of draining.  So the footer will be poured, and the forms set up for the main body pour.  Before that pour we will arrange drainage pipes through the wall, in line with the bottom of the existing drainage ditch along track 7 (to become the turntable lead). 

In this way we will drain as much as physically possible.

We also plan a drain pipe directly above the one described above.  This one will go though the retaining wall and handle surface water during storms.

See ya
Jason
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on July 21, 2016, 03:15:06 PM
Moving right along. When do you expect to pour the footer?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jason M Lamontagne on July 21, 2016, 05:35:47 PM
Monday afternoon.  That gives Jeff time to move the mountain, so the cement truck can get closer and avoid a pumper. 

Also gives time for footer form backfilling.

See ya
Jason
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ted Miles on July 21, 2016, 07:44:39 PM
Folks,
         I am enjoying both the historic and modern pictures of the turntable on  the Facebook pages.

I note that the outer circle was originally wood and at some later time it was re-made in cement. is it known when this was?

It does not appear to be something that Mr Winter, the lumber man would have done.

Ted Miles, WW&F Member
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Richard Cavalloro on July 21, 2016, 08:01:47 PM
Any estimate on the amount of concrete required?  That center support looks like a big pour.   By the way, just saw pictures posted on another website of the Corkscrew Gulch turntable and it's a similar design to ours.

Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Stephen Hussar on July 21, 2016, 09:27:27 PM
Phenomenal job everyone!! And GREAT pictures, Brendan! Thanks for documenting this so well!

Stephen
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on July 21, 2016, 11:35:57 PM
Corkscrew Gulch turntable center bearing (http://railroadglorydays.com/Corkscrew/Corkscrew12.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on July 23, 2016, 05:06:28 AM
Great pics.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on July 23, 2016, 06:44:55 PM
Will the excavated soil be used as fill, say, at the first mainline washout north of TOM?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jason M Lamontagne on July 23, 2016, 07:22:11 PM
No, it's being removed.  It's pretty junky stuff.

See ya
Jason
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on July 23, 2016, 08:51:11 PM
Too bad.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on July 23, 2016, 09:54:03 PM
It would make good fill where compaction wasn't an issue. Not under a building or roadbed. Going to try and use similar material in those critical areas.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on July 24, 2016, 11:25:13 PM
Noticed the clay tiles are still being used to support the rebar cage. These should be removed before the pour, or a void could be created, creating a weak spot in the footer. Use of rebar as a support would be much better strength wise, by driving them in as stakes and tying the rebar cages to them, or use solid bricks.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on July 25, 2016, 04:49:54 AM
Mike...As former rebar detailer, special metal spacer 'chairs' are made for rebar to sit on , especially in slabs.
Definitely pull out those hollow pipe tiles, replace with at least 2" thick solid bricks to keep rebar up inside the concrete to properly reinforce and help keep it consolidated if cracking occurs.

Um...finally read a note on the rebar placement plan: minimum coverage--3 inches.
So there.  ;)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Terry Harper on July 25, 2016, 12:29:46 PM
The rule I was taught regarding rebar cover was the rebar should be a min. of 3" from the bottom of the slab/footing
and Min. 1-1/2" in from the sides and top.

I love watching WW&F projects progress. You folks simply know how to get it done and get it done right.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on July 25, 2016, 05:38:33 PM
Terry...sounds good to me.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Dave Crow on July 25, 2016, 06:33:39 PM
American Concrete Institute (ACI) specifies 3" minimum cover to protect the rebar from water seeping in and corroding the rebar.  Any seams between concrete pours, such as between the footer and the center pedestal, are supposed to be sealed with a concrete bonding agent.

Dave Crow
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on July 25, 2016, 08:10:48 PM
The footing was poured this afternoon.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/DSC_0764.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/DSC_0765.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/DSC_0778.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/DSC_0783.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/DSC_0788.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/DSC_0797.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/DSC_0804.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/DSC_0809.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/DSC_0816.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/DSC_0823.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/DSC_0838.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/DSC_0845.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/DSC_0850.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jeff Schumaker on July 26, 2016, 12:14:13 AM
Fantastic progress. So, what is the next step?

Jeff S.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Stewart "Start" Rhine on July 26, 2016, 01:01:52 AM
Build the next set of forms for the next pour.  The panels for the forms have been built, they will be set up and secured around the next stage of rebar.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on July 26, 2016, 04:27:02 PM
Will the thick ring stem wall be cast as a one-piece, solid unit?
Will more rebar be added?
Am assuming the turntable will be assembled in place when enough prelim work is done?
When is the next pour? IIRC, I've learned generic concrete takes 3 days to reach 50% strength, 90% in 28 days.

Love 'snoopervising' this fascinating project.  :D
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on July 26, 2016, 05:41:01 PM
Paul,
The rebar that is laying at the end of track, just beyond the tie, is for the retaining wall for the TT lead, and 3 roundhouse tracks. Also, I think there was some to go across the length of the fingers.

Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Stewart "Start" Rhine on July 26, 2016, 09:10:38 PM
Forgot to note: 

Before the next phase of form construction there is another set of rebar loops that get added to the top of the ring wall towards the outer edge/roundhouse side.  Adding these loops began today, they are for the narrow part of the wall that the roundhouse/yard tracks rest on.  The wide portion of the ring wall is for the ring rail which supports the end of the bridge when an engine rolls onto it.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Harold Downey on July 26, 2016, 10:33:15 PM
Here is a snip from the drawing - the upper loops for the retaining wall portion are added next
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Stewart "Start" Rhine on July 26, 2016, 11:09:53 PM
Thanks Harold, that explains it far better.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on July 27, 2016, 12:34:50 AM
Hard to see in the pictures but more rebar was added today. You can see the tall skinny hoops in Harold's drawing in the second picture.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74001/IMG_7110.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74001/IMG_7112.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on July 27, 2016, 12:54:06 AM
Also looks like the center pivot is in place
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on July 27, 2016, 11:18:41 PM
The rebar work for the next concrete pour was finished today and work started on putting up the concrete forms.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74004/IMG_7115.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Carl Soderstrom on July 28, 2016, 05:57:04 AM
How many yards in that center basement?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on July 28, 2016, 10:40:41 AM
That is looking good.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Dave Crow on July 28, 2016, 11:38:27 AM
And to think that almost all of what you see will be buried under backfill when it's done...
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: John McNamara on July 28, 2016, 01:31:08 PM
And to think that almost all of what you see will be buried under backfill when it's done...
Thanks to Brendan's great photos, we'll always know. ;D
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Roger Cole on July 29, 2016, 03:58:12 PM
This question may have been answered in one thread or another, but not finding the answer I will ask it here.  The turntable will obviously serve the new to-be-built roundhouse.  Is the plan to use it to turn the engine on the excursions?  If so, wouldn't a wye or turntable be needed at the other end of the line?  Or is that something for the future when the line is extended north?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on July 29, 2016, 04:37:40 PM
Roger,
We have been thinking about this. We talked about building a wye at TOM, but due to the amount of area need and the lay of the land, it just would not work. Other thoughts are being discussed, but current project focus keeps everyone occupied enough..
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: James Patten on July 29, 2016, 06:25:03 PM
Regarding turning the engine - for the last 14 or so years all of our motive power has pointed south.  Now we can point it north for a year and everyone will have to come back to take pictures again ;D 
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Stewart "Start" Rhine on July 29, 2016, 10:14:42 PM
#52 faces north now so it could be turned south. 
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ken Fleming on July 30, 2016, 01:22:43 AM
You also give the rolling stock a spin annually to equalize weathering.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Pete "Cosmo" Barrington on August 01, 2016, 12:58:09 AM
Our weathering is a carefully applied layer of PACTRA acrylic and chalk dust washed with 10% alcohol-to-H2O...
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on August 04, 2016, 04:42:32 PM
More foundation progress.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74004/IMG_7283.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74004/IMG_7288.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74004/IMG_7291.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74004/IMG_7296.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74004/IMG_7298.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74004/IMG_7302.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74004/IMG_7312.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ira Schreiber on August 04, 2016, 05:32:15 PM
It looks great. When do you expect the next pour?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on August 04, 2016, 05:33:24 PM
Unless you're experienced, it's  usually hard to picture how much labor-intensive concrete formwork it takes, particularly for not-usual jobs like this.
Looks great. It won't be long for Pours 2 and 3.  :D   
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Gordon Cook on August 05, 2016, 06:36:29 PM
Having finally seen the foundation in person, the quality and quantity of the work is even more impressive.

Is there a timetable for the turntable?   ;D
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on August 10, 2016, 10:32:31 PM
More foundation progress. The next concrete pour should be the beginning of next week.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74003/IMG_7324.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74003/IMG_7329.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74003/IMG_7336.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74003/IMG_7342.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74003/IMG_7343.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Dave Crow on August 11, 2016, 11:22:17 AM
Looking great!  Will the ribs be part of this pour?  Are all the rebar hoops that extend up for the top part of the outer retaining wall adjusted for alignment?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on August 11, 2016, 12:23:36 PM
This is where the form work becomes critical. The top has to be level for everything to work perfectly when done. This is pain staking work and I commend these guys for doing it right.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jason M Lamontagne on August 11, 2016, 12:47:00 PM
Well- critical- sort of.  We're building in some safety factor, because we're not professionals.  The pour will be a couple inches below the top of this level of forms, and all surfaces important to turntable function will be subject to custom shimming. 

The ribs will be part of the next pour.  The tops of the ribs will be capped for a short distance near the center and outer arcs, to prevent localized overflow.  The slump is thick enough that we're not worried about overflow near the center of the ribs- we'll leave that open to fill the ribs.  We'll have caps available at the time in case we're wrong. 

We'll double check the retaining wall hoops one last time- but we believe they are correct, yes.  (Well- the one on the east end looks errant to my eye- we'll see).  We've decided to wait on installing the last rebar, which are the circumferential hoops for the retaining wall, until after the second pour.  They can be forced around the arc with little trouble- however we're avoiding putting that outward force on the hoops until they're locked in by concrete.

This has been a major effort; it does equate to a major dollar savings for the museum.  When it's done we'll all have to go for a spin; I'll push!

See ya
Jason
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Wayne Laepple on August 11, 2016, 04:26:59 PM
"... We'll all have to go for a spin. I"ll  push!"

Not a bad idea. Several museums I know of offer visitors a ride around on the turntable. Put up a donation box at each end and see what happens....
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Robert Hale on August 11, 2016, 04:58:56 PM
Wish I was there to "pour" into this project.  8)
Seriously you guys are going at it strong. Keep up the good work.
All you need now is the W.W.&F. batch factory onsite.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Horky on August 12, 2016, 09:49:32 PM
  Being from Arizona where we do not have to worry about frost heaving I am guessing this is the reason for going so deep with the foundation?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Baskerville on August 12, 2016, 11:19:14 PM
So, I have to ask, what is the white thing in the middle of the hub steel?  I thought the center pivot was iron.??? ???

Bill
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: James Patten on August 12, 2016, 11:39:52 PM
So, I have to ask, what is the white thing in the middle of the hub steel?  I thought the center pivot was iron.??? ???

Bill

A plastic bucket.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Joe Fox on August 13, 2016, 01:11:50 AM
Paul, yes. All foundations have to go down four feet below grade to get below frost level up here. Some locations are less, and some are more but 4' is the average.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Baskerville on August 13, 2016, 01:56:09 AM
Thanks James, but that begs the question why is there a plastic bucket in the middle of the turn table?  Is that like the Christmas tree on the top of the steel work of a sky scraper signifying the steel work is completed, or a broom stick on a submarine mast signifying all torpedoes expended?

Bill
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on August 13, 2016, 08:59:50 PM
I'm thinking the bucket is really a 'blockout' so the metal turntable pivot can be installed after the concrete is cured.
What do I win?  ;D
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jason M Lamontagne on August 13, 2016, 09:41:24 PM
The bucket will be removed prior to pouring.  It contains a screw- perfectly centered- upon which we pivot a string to snap the various radii required to locate the rebar and form work.

See ya
Jason
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Baskerville on August 14, 2016, 01:13:59 AM
I knew there had to be a good reason other than to see if anyone noticed.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Craig "Red" Heun on August 15, 2016, 10:11:17 PM
Hi all. I took some pictures of the yard and turntable about two weeks ago. My wife will upload it to Facebook since I'm a techno moron. I tried uploading one here but it was too large. Hopefully you will be able to zoom in on the yard once it's uploaded to Facebook .  I don't do Facebook but I guess I should...what can I say I don' like big brother reading my stuff !  LOL
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on August 16, 2016, 01:38:00 AM
Most recent batch of turntable pictures. The forms were finished last week and gravel was placed around the bottom of the forms to keep the forms from shifting during the concrete pour. More gravel was placed in and around the hole to allow the concrete trucks to get closer to the forms. Today the forms were coated with release agent and a bonding agent was applied to the top of the footers. We also started drilling the main beams for bolts today.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74008/IMG_7372.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74008/IMG_7377.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74008/IMG_7382.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74008/IMG_7386.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74008/IMG_7397.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74008/IMG_7398.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74008/IMG_7401.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74008/IMG_7406.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74008/IMG_7423.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74008/IMG_7429.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74008/IMG_7558.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74008/IMG_7560.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74008/IMG_7576.jpg)

Center bearing wheel being turned.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74008/IMG_7385.jpg)

Drilling the main beams for bolts. Two main beams are bolted together to form one assembly for each side of the turntable bridge.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74008/IMG_7565.jpg)

Completed cross members for the turntable bridge staged in the parking lot.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74008/IMG_7580.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Chuck Watford on August 16, 2016, 03:47:00 PM
Great Work! Two questions: there will be one more pour after this for the retaining wall?  Will bolts for the center bearing be set in place during the pour or drilled into the concrete later? I am really looking foward to seeing the finished project.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on August 16, 2016, 07:52:41 PM
I'd also be careful not to get any dirt inside the forms, particularly the grade beams.
Uh-oh...better get the Shop-Vac!  ;D
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Gordon Cook on August 16, 2016, 07:53:57 PM
Those sure are formidable forms.   

 ::)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Stewart "Start" Rhine on August 16, 2016, 08:26:15 PM
The second pour went well today.  Four trucks kept about 10 of us working steady.  Pictures soon.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on August 17, 2016, 01:16:50 AM
2nd concrete pour.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74002/IMG_7590.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74002/IMG_7593.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74002/IMG_7595.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74002/IMG_7599.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74002/IMG_7608.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74002/IMG_7614.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74002/IMG_7618.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74002/IMG_7628.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74002/IMG_7638.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74002/IMG_7650.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74002/IMG_7671.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Terry W. Shirley on August 17, 2016, 01:36:22 AM
BEAUTIFUL Progress!!!! ;)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Carl Soderstrom on August 17, 2016, 04:02:19 AM
On the turntable bridge.
Will there be spacers or washers between the 2 timbers of each assembly?
For drainage and drying? Or the wood treatment and being pulled tight together enough?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Dave Buczkowski on August 17, 2016, 04:04:10 AM
Is Steve Z carving his initials in the concrete in the penultimate photo?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jason M Lamontagne on August 17, 2016, 11:07:06 AM
The timbers will be separated by two bridge washers; this allows the truss rods to sneak through and keeps them from holding water.

See ya
Jason
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on August 17, 2016, 06:14:34 PM
As they'd say in Noo Yawk....soopoib woik, yooz guys, hah?  ;)
When is the final, stem wall pour?
Also, looks like footing forms remain in place. ?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on August 18, 2016, 11:18:41 PM
Last set of forms being put together today.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/IMG_7685.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/IMG_7690.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/IMG_7695.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/IMG_7699.jpg)

Center bearing wheels being machined.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/IMG_7674.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/IMG_7677.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Joe Fox on August 19, 2016, 12:19:07 PM
Are the forms staying in the ground or being removed?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jason M Lamontagne on August 19, 2016, 12:39:20 PM
Most will be removed
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Robert Hale on August 19, 2016, 01:42:03 PM
What will the fill be in the turntable pit? Grass, rock?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jason M Lamontagne on August 23, 2016, 06:34:26 PM
Last pour tomorrow, Wednesday, August 24, at noon.

Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Stewart "Start" Rhine on August 23, 2016, 09:01:24 PM
Back fill material will be varied.  So far it's been gravel (sand, stones and pebbles).  There is a drainage plan that calls for a layer of crushed rock which leads water to the drain pipes in the ring wall.  Finish material would be sand and (if there's $) loam soil for planting grass.  The area just south of the TT will be a grassy area where people can watch the locomotives being turned.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Craig "Red" Heun on August 23, 2016, 11:01:38 PM
Hi All

My wife passed on some of the Facebook comments. Glad you liked them. Not a drone it was taken with my cell phone while I was banking around over the top of the WW&F. I'll try and get a few more shots of the progress as it goes.

You Guys amaze me at how much you get done with volunteers. I work for the VA and we don't get half of what you guys do with a steady full time 130 plus full time workforce. Nice Job!

I have some of the TOM but they didn't come out as clear. I'll see if I can find a fairly decent one and have Ann post it on Facebook.

Thanks, Red
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Joe Fox on August 24, 2016, 03:11:25 AM
Red, Thank you for your beautiful photos of a birds eye view.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Dwight Winkley on August 24, 2016, 08:57:20 PM
Will someone please post here the picture you are talking about.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ed Lecuyer on August 24, 2016, 09:08:49 PM
Here is Red's photo.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on August 24, 2016, 11:09:11 PM
The last concrete pour was done this afternoon.

Last set of forms up waiting on concrete.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74003/IMG_7754.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74003/IMG_7758.jpg)

Concrete in place.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74003/IMG_7830.jpg)

The crew started pulling forms off the center bearing foundation.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74003/IMG_7828.jpg)

Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Benjamin Campbell on August 26, 2016, 04:40:12 PM
Great work everyone!  What is the status of the inner and outer ring rails? I assume that we need to get the inner and maybe the outer ring rails rolled to the appropriate arcs? Are there two sets of center ring rails? One above and below the wheels/rollers?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on August 28, 2016, 06:59:47 PM
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/Mobile%20Uploads/0828161242_zpsvwwm4tyq.jpg)

(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/Mobile%20Uploads/0828161242b_zpsjunw3mru.jpg)

(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/Mobile%20Uploads/0828161243a_zpslqclzd8w.jpg)

Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: John McNamara on August 28, 2016, 10:34:39 PM
Looks kind of like a small amphitheater - people sitting on cushions around the side with a performer in the center. I won't say more lest this get moved to the tomfoolery section.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: John Kokas on August 28, 2016, 11:16:54 PM
And it comes with a rotating stage !!!!!!!!!   ;D
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Arnold on August 28, 2016, 11:58:50 PM
"The Sheepscot Music Fair".
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Stewart "Start" Rhine on August 29, 2016, 12:41:36 AM
It was said in jest but in some ways, the whole railroad is a stage and classroom.  People come to Sheepscot to see "Old Maine".  They like the old time rural feel of the historic train ride, buildings and grounds.  What makes it special is our volunteers.  We are to some extent actors, especially the train crews. (yes, some are real characters!) Visitors want to see how it was and we make that happen.

This weekend I spoke to folks from FLA, OR, GA, PA and NC.  Almost every one of them told us how interesting the place is and it's wonderful seeing technology from 100 years ago.   Just today, a young girl from VA rode the train and then wanted a handcar ride.  She has relatives in Wiscasset and has been to Alna a number of times, enough so that she knew the handcar rules and was telling the other kids how to be safe.  It was a pleasure having kids like Claire at the railroad, she even noted that next year she wants to ride the handcar over the turntable.  Not sure if we will allow that but it's great to see the enthusiasm that she and her brothers have for the WW&F.  The new turntable will add another point of interest to the operation and we're not the only ones looking forward to seeing it in operation.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on September 01, 2016, 04:42:59 AM
More turntable progress pictures. Drainage and grading work around the turntable should be done this week. Machine work is continuing on the bearing parts and work is progressing on the turntable bridge.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74004/IMG_7861.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74004/IMG_7868.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74004/IMG_7880.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74004/IMG_7906.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74004/IMG_7913.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74004/IMG_7924.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74004/IMG_7933.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74004/IMG_7940.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74004/IMG_7950.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74004/IMG_7953.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74004/IMG_7962.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74004/IMG_7965.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74004/IMG_7974.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74004/IMG_7981.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74004/IMG_7991.jpg)

Main beams being drilled for bolts.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74004/IMG_7856.jpg)

Bearing wheels being drilled for grease fittings.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74004/IMG_7977.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74004/IMG_7993.jpg)

Anchor castings for the inner truss rods have been machined.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74004/IMG_7895.jpg)

Oak being cut for the queen post assemblies.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74004/IMG_7900.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Robert Hale on September 01, 2016, 12:39:25 PM
I hate to ask, but will the concrete be 360 degrees for the turn table?  ???
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ed Lecuyer on September 01, 2016, 01:37:19 PM
The concrete retaining wall only needs to be present where the tracks come on/off the turntable. In this case, there will be four tracks: 3 that feed the engine house (located where the coal storage is now) and one track from the "lower" yard (in-place, but needs to be aligned to the table.)

Due to space and site constraints, it is not likely that we will ever build track along any other "edge" of the table. Moreover, the original railroad used this practice - only building the retaining wall where needed. Of course, the table itself will still swing a full 360 degrees.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Robert Hale on September 01, 2016, 02:06:35 PM
Ok, thx. That is what I kinda figured what was going to happen.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Chuck Watford on September 01, 2016, 04:08:08 PM
It just gets better and better!
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on September 01, 2016, 10:25:07 PM
Great pics!
I take it the extensive 'French drain' system of perforated pipe in gravel? surrounding the center support and along the ring/wing wall connects with the larger corrugated pipe, which extends  to, where?  ???
Also, will you coat the bare ends of all the 'table pieces/parts with preservative?  ;)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on September 02, 2016, 01:40:52 AM
All of the major earth work and drainage around the turntable foundation was completed today. The ring rail ties were bolted to the foundation today and track seven was relined to serve as the turntable lead.

The last drain pipes going in. This drain is for the water coming off the shop roof.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/IMG_7995.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/IMG_8017.jpg)

Bolting down the ring rail ties. The area around the ties was filled in with stone to make walking around in the pit area easier.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/IMG_8001.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/IMG_8006.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/IMG_8025.jpg)

Backfilling behind the retaining wall.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/IMG_8041.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/IMG_8050.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/IMG_8029.jpg)

Lining track 7 over to the turntable.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/IMG_8056.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/IMG_8066.jpg)

Track 7 moved over to feed the turntable.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/IMG_8083.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/IMG_8123.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/IMG_8070.jpg)

Overall view of the turntable sight at the end of today.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/IMG_8118.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/IMG_8113.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/IMG_8089.jpg)

This picture was taken 7 weeks ago. Not bad progress.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74007/IMG_6408.jpg)


Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ira Schreiber on September 02, 2016, 01:53:34 AM
Absolutely a great project. Thanks to everyone who contributed to this turntable.

I can't wait to see it in four weeks.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: John McNamara on September 02, 2016, 01:56:52 AM
Brendan - great shots! BTW, I know that you and Stewart rerouted the telephone/data wires and the water line. Where did they land up? ("underground" doesn't count. ::))
-John
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on September 02, 2016, 02:04:23 AM
The water line was buried next to the footer for the ring rail foundation. The telephone and alarm lines are still temporarily run above ground.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Wayne Laepple on September 02, 2016, 02:17:05 AM
I am just astounded by the progress and how great everything looks. Congratulations and well done to all involved.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jason M Lamontagne on September 02, 2016, 10:54:09 AM
Those have to be the most mobile telephone wires anywhere.  "Ok flip them over to the south side of the excavator."  An hour goes by.  "Ok back to the north!"  Etc etc...

Plan is to put them in the trench system and central hub building planned for later this year or next.  In the mean time we can lay them along the top of the turntable bridge, right?

See ya
Jason
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Dave Crow on September 02, 2016, 11:31:27 AM
Will more of the existing drainage ditch along Track 7 get filled in, or will you construct a retaining wall and place fill to support Track 7 where it has been shifted westward?

I guess the rear side of the outer ring wall did not need bituminous coating before backfill to reduce the water seeping through the concrete?

Looks great!  I look forward to seeing it in person at FWW.

Dave Crow
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Dwight Winkley on September 02, 2016, 03:27:51 PM
Hi Dave, if you go back to page 18, Scholl down to photo 6 and 7 you can see  were the old drain from the shop has been extended into the drain pipes from the turntable pit. The old drain ditch near the shop was filled in and track 7 moved over. No retaining wall needed.
dwight
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Dave Crow on September 02, 2016, 03:43:26 PM
Hi Dwight, looking at the photos showing the shift of Track 7 so that it lines up with the turntable, it looks like the edge of some of the ties (that Jeff shifted westward) are close to the edge of the embankment.  I like the drain pipes to channel the shop roof run-off into the ditch; I'm sure it will help keep the ground drier.

I also noticed the nice drain pipe under the future roundhouse leads, up towards the Percival house.  The culvert pipe ends in a smallish opening, just right for someone to fall into; will the pipe be extended under the driveway, or will there be a grating or protective fence around the opening?

Good luck next week with the convention attendees!

Dave Crow
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Chuck Watford on September 02, 2016, 05:45:09 PM
Very impressive work in a relatively short time. Hope the turntable goes as fast! Any plans you can share about how the roundhouse will look?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ed Lecuyer on September 02, 2016, 05:58:27 PM
The roundhouse will be a replica of the 3-stall building that existed on the original WW&F at Wiscasset. The only difference is that the run through track in Wiscasset was through the left stall, whereas ours will be through the right stall.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on September 02, 2016, 08:52:45 PM
Dave,
Pipe will be graded to and dressed up for now. It was left that way to be extended if a landscaping idea we tossed around this week gets approved by the board.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Chuck Watford on September 03, 2016, 12:45:07 AM
Is this the building?
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/wtt1.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ed Lecuyer on September 03, 2016, 12:47:35 AM
Yep. That's the one.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Chuck Watford on September 03, 2016, 04:15:17 PM
Great! Looks like a vacation trip to Maine is in the future!
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Philip Marshall on September 03, 2016, 06:33:06 PM
Did the Wiscasset roundhouse not have doors, or did the doors just swing inward? This part of the design has always puzzled me. Will our roundhouse not have doors either?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jason M Lamontagne on September 03, 2016, 06:55:55 PM
It had inward swinging doors; you can see the right door of the stall closest to us in the photo.

Many Maine shop buildings had inward swinging doors so you didn't have to shovel snow to open the door. 

Jason
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Philip Marshall on September 03, 2016, 07:27:16 PM
Thanks, Jason. That makes sense
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Dwight Winkley on September 04, 2016, 02:11:18 AM
Dave Crow, Just returned from the museum, right now it looks like we do need to build a retaining wall.
dwight
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Joe Fox on September 04, 2016, 11:01:13 AM
The roundhouse in North Conway also had inward doors originally, however in recent years they were modified to swing out to allow longer house tracks inside.

Not only are inward doors good for not shoveling snow, but this also allows the doors to be open and not foul any track. On more than one occasion I can think of a few outward swinging doors that got demolished while fouling an adjacent track, and in one case knocked the wall off the support column between the two tracks. In the summer time all the doors are open while the engines are steaming or banked inside to allow air conditioning.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on September 07, 2016, 02:04:53 AM
An extensive (207 total) photo series by Brendan Barry  detailing  WW&F turntable project progress, mid-July to the present, has been posted at the Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum, including a few shots not posted at WW&F.
Job got overwhelming praise.  :D
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on September 08, 2016, 04:05:52 AM
Turntable updates.

Main beams going together.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74002/IMG_8402.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74002/IMG_8371.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74002/IMG_8399.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74002/IMG_8413.jpg)

Queen posts being cut.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74002/IMG_8374.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74002/IMG_8376.jpg)

Ballast and tamping track 7 .

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74002/IMG_8379.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74002/IMG_8387.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74002/IMG_8459.jpg)

Cross beams being installed on the turntable bridge.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74002/IMG_8417.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74002/IMG_8420.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74002/IMG_8430.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74002/IMG_8474.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74002/IMG_8479.jpg)

Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Joe Fox on September 08, 2016, 09:10:09 AM
Amazing work. The turntable is really looking quite impressive.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Greg Klein on September 08, 2016, 05:44:02 PM
Amazing work. The turntable is really looking quite impressive.
Agreed!  I'm bummed I haven't been around much this summer to help.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on September 09, 2016, 03:30:13 AM
More pictures from today.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74005/IMG_8537.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74005/IMG_8552.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74005/IMG_8569.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74005/IMG_8577.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74005/IMG_8581.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on September 09, 2016, 11:06:16 AM
Since the bridge is being built upside down, what are the plams for flipping it? Flip and set on the pivot at the same time? Really need a crane due to the size of it now.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jason M Lamontagne on September 09, 2016, 11:49:07 AM
We had been counting on hiring a crane for this purpose right along. A few weeks ago, one of our members who owns a marine construction business offered to donate crane services. 

See ya
Jason
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on September 09, 2016, 02:51:12 PM
Awesome. Thanks
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: James Patten on September 09, 2016, 08:15:30 PM
With all the people there on Thursday I was thinking we should have had them circle around and pick it up and move it over to the spot it needs to be on.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Carl Soderstrom on September 10, 2016, 03:51:37 AM
Thanks for asking that question Mike - I was wondering.

Does any one know how it was done originally?

Built at plant - then disassembled - then reassembled on site?
Was it just built on site with precut / predrilled (Jig drilled) timbers?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on September 11, 2016, 01:14:34 AM
More turntable progress.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74006/IMG_8660.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74006/IMG_8670.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74006/IMG_8673.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74006/IMG_8690.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74006/IMG_8698.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74006/IMG_8707.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74006/IMG_8710.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Win Nowell on September 11, 2016, 02:56:58 PM
That is an awesome piece of woodwork! Is there a photo of the center pivot available? before it gets covered up!
Win Nowell
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Dwight Winkley on September 11, 2016, 08:10:08 PM
Hi Win. Yesterday I noticed the male center pivot casting set up in a lathe for machining.
Dwight
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Reidy on September 11, 2016, 08:44:25 PM
Amazing amount of work completed by Randy, Zack and crew on the turntable bridge this past week, especially Friday, considering it was in the mid-90s.  Great to see in person.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Dwight Winkley on September 12, 2016, 03:18:28 AM
Win, I just reread your post.    Go to page 7 of this thread. The first photo show the castings for the turntable. On lower left side of the rail cart are the two pivot castings.
dwight
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Win Nowell on September 12, 2016, 02:31:13 PM
OK Dwight - thanks for pointing those out!

The turntable bridge looks like it belongs in a shipyard - or should come out of one!

Win Nowell
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Dwight Winkley on September 12, 2016, 07:56:56 PM
Heard Zack tell visitors, the turntable weight when finished will be 9 tons,
dwight
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Harold Downey on September 13, 2016, 01:35:29 AM
Design estimate is 9.6 tons.  That's 400 lb. per foot.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Harold Downey on September 13, 2016, 02:39:43 AM
Let me clarify slightly:  9.6T is complete turntable bridge weight.  For crane estimation, it would be less.  No rail (1/2 ton), no rail sleepers, no truss rods or queen posts.   Maybe around 8.5 to 9 tons.

Harold
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on September 13, 2016, 10:59:38 AM
I wish I could be there to help pick that. Baby weight compared to what we pick here. It is all in the rigging.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bob Holmes on September 15, 2016, 05:21:55 PM
Can someone describe how the central parts of the turntable (center bearing, pivot, spider, etc.) fit together.  What is attached to what and is anything freely floating?  What is attached to the concrete base?  Is there some kind of rail that the spider wheels bear on?  What is attached to the trestle itself?  In what order is it all done?  Thanks for clarifying.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Robert Hale on September 15, 2016, 05:33:30 PM
Can someone describe how the central parts of the turntable (center bearing, pivot, spider, etc.) fit together.  What is attached to what and is anything freely floating?  What is attached to the concrete base?  Is there some kind of rail that the spider wheels bear on?  What is attached to the trestle itself?  In what order is it all done?  Thanks for clarifying.

In theory this is how it will work, just on a larger scale for the spider rollers. The center pivot bearing will be a plain bearing (I gather) rotating on an axle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrust_bearing#/media/File:Thrust-ball-bearing_din711_ex.png
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on September 15, 2016, 05:52:29 PM


You can see the wheels holding up the turntable on the inner ring rail in this picture.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74006/wtt3.jpg)


Brendan posted this picture back in January. There is actually a center pivot. I'll see if I can find a picture of that too
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Gordon Cook on September 15, 2016, 06:29:43 PM
Back on page 10 of this thread, Harold posted a picture of the spider assembly.

I note that on the drawing the spider wheels are described as tapered towards the middle, which would make the wheels want to pull outward, putting tension on the whole assembly.

Perhaps Harold could give us a more complete explanation of the design.

Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Dwight Winkley on September 15, 2016, 06:46:42 PM
page 7, first photo shows the pivot casings, lower left side of cart.
dwight
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on September 15, 2016, 08:18:07 PM


(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74009/IMG_3920.jpg)

Here is the photo
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on September 16, 2016, 02:52:40 AM
Turntable updates.

Center pin being installed.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74003/IMG_8716.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74003/IMG_8719.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74003/IMG_8729.jpg)

Rail bent for the ring rail on the underside of the turntable. The rails have to be trimmed to length and bolted to the turntable.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74003/IMG_8723.jpg)

Queen posts.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74003/IMG_8725.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74003/IMG_8727.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Robert Hale on September 16, 2016, 10:28:09 AM


You can see the wheels holding up the turntable on the inner ring rail in this picture.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bbarry74006/wtt3.jpg)


Brendan posted this picture back in January. There is actually a center pivot. I'll see if I can find a picture of that too
Why is there a third tie-rod between the queen posts in this photo? Is it a modification of the design? Or something of an after thought because of issues with the queen posts?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jason M Lamontagne on September 16, 2016, 11:26:15 AM
The tie rod is in the original Portland Company design.  It works against the compression strut lower down in the posts to hold them in the correct (angled) vertical orientation.

See ya
Jason
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Robert Hale on September 16, 2016, 12:53:40 PM
The tie rod is in the original Portland Company design.  It works against the compression strut lower down in the posts to hold them in the correct (angled) vertical orientation.

See ya
Jason
I kinda figured that. One other thing you can see in the photo is how the main timbers are bowed upwards a bit even with the engine on the turntable.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Benjamin Campbell on September 16, 2016, 12:55:56 PM
Really great work!!!! I had asked earlier in this thread where and how the ring rails were being bent? Any photos of it being done?

I do wonder whether a steel center pin should be used for the bearing? While there should not be much lateral impact on the bearing arrangement it would not take much to snap a gray iron pin. Whether turned from the solid or a weldament – a steel center pin would give an extra degree of protection to equipment and persons. In the close up photo the spider wheels appear to be flanged which would have helped keep everything centered. In our design everything relies on the one central pin and cup.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bob Holmes on September 16, 2016, 01:38:37 PM
How will ring rails and center pivot be attached to the concrete?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Gordon Cook on September 16, 2016, 03:56:48 PM
I noticed in the picture of the pivot casting that it had a hemispherical shape. Then in the picture of it installed that shape has been machined to be flat on the end.
Way back when, many turntables for playing records had a center pivot with a hemispherical shape on the end because that shape in a flat bottom cup created a thrust bearing with the least friction and noise. It also allows for slight misalignment.
I had 'assumed' that would be true in this case as well when I saw the round shape of the pin.
Can someone explain why the pin would be cast with the round shape and then have that machined off?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jason M Lamontagne on September 16, 2016, 06:24:08 PM
The original intention was that the male hemispherical end would fit into a female hemispherical end.  Upon realizing that the center pivot really shouldn't take any weight, -'f any wear on thevsoider wheels would increase the center pivot load, we decided to through bore the female center pivot.  That means the shape of the end of the male pivot becomes irrelevant.

See ya
Jason
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on September 16, 2016, 08:33:42 PM
Jason...I'm assuming your statement is: "...AND any wear on THE SPIDER wheels would increase the center pivot load, we decided to through-bore the female center pivot "...makes the most sense to me.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bob Holmes on September 16, 2016, 09:02:34 PM
Let me see if I've got this right:  it's a "spider sandwich" between upper and lower ring rails?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Crabb on September 16, 2016, 09:38:22 PM
I see that the ring rails for the underside of the bridge have been bent. Have the lower ring rails also been bent? Were the ring rails bent on site or sent out and bent? Just wondering given our unsuccessful efforts to bend the lower ring rails last weekend.
Paul C.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on September 18, 2016, 12:43:17 AM
"The Bender".. You bend over to pick it up by yourself, and you stay that way. Heavy..

(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/Mobile%20Uploads/0917161225a_zps5yqnxmdc.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ira Schreiber on September 18, 2016, 01:04:27 AM
Aldon Rail Bender. Manually operated and a back breaker. I have bent many rails with one of these over the years. Bigger models are hydraulically operated. Still a back breaker but much less turning of the screw by hand.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on September 18, 2016, 04:44:34 AM
Branford has  a hydraulic one.
Make them a deal.   ;)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Benjamin Campbell on September 18, 2016, 11:40:08 AM
Is that the rail bender with the brazed repair? If so – I donated it when I first joined the museum back in the 90s and was fearful that it would not hold up under actual use. I am impressed that the repair has held and that such a perfect arc could be bent with that type of tool. I assumed that we would have to have the ring rails bent/rolled at a structural steel shop.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Stewart "Start" Rhine on September 18, 2016, 12:05:52 PM
The key to uniform bending is to measure/mark exact increments on the rail and apply equal amounts of pressure at each increment.  This is done by running the bender screw against the rail hand tight at the center line of each mark and then turning the screw five times with the same amount of travel to the bar. 
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Pete "Cosmo" Barrington on September 18, 2016, 01:24:33 PM
But...I thought it was ... EIGHT_to_the_bar!  ;D
*ducks and runs*
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on September 18, 2016, 09:50:36 PM
Musical or not, looks like it woiks fine to me.
Will rail segments be welded in to complete the coicles?
Hope da crane comes soon.  ;)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jason M Lamontagne on September 18, 2016, 11:15:36 PM
We intend to apply bent joint bars at the 3 joints in each ring.  The crane, the services of which are being donated, is scheduled for early next week.

See ya
Jason
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Chuck Watford on September 19, 2016, 01:45:15 AM
Great work!  Any photos of the spider and wheel assembly yet?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jason M Lamontagne on September 19, 2016, 11:14:24 AM
None to be had- after the wheels were completed,  our volunteers focused on bridge construction, ring rail bending and center pivot machining.  We outsourced the bending and drilling of the rolled frame components of the spider; those parts haven't yet arrived.  We hope to start making spider axles this week or next.

See ya
Jason
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Chuck Watford on September 20, 2016, 02:57:24 AM
Thank you. I look forward to seeing photos as the spider goes together. From the drawings, it appears that the wheels at either end of the bridge will be mounted with off-the-shelf pillow block bearings?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Carl Soderstrom on September 20, 2016, 04:37:55 AM
Two things: (for now)

Should not the female side be fastened to the bridge and the male to the foundation to keep water
from pooling and freezing in the pivot? Or will there be a seal to keep water out

Was mentioned on Book of Facades - no grease fittings because could not get to it -
a 3/16 copper line (or 1/8 black pipe with a zerk at outside of bridge timber would do the trick)
That would require the set up as above.

Or drill a hole alongside the pivot and add  zerk so you can grease between ties
A short nipple can be tack welded on so the zerk is below tie level.

Or I am seeing problems where non exist? But it is easier to do it now.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on September 20, 2016, 10:45:48 AM

Should not the female side be fastened to the bridge and the male to the foundation to keep water
from pooling and freezing in the pivot? Or will there be a seal to keep water out



I asked that very question last week off line. I was told there will be a drain hole in the female portion.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Robert Hale on September 20, 2016, 11:27:43 AM
Two things: (for now)

Should not the female side be fastened to the bridge and the male to the foundation to keep water
from pooling and freezing in the pivot? Or will there be a seal to keep water out

Was mentioned on Book of Facades - no grease fittings because could not get to it -
a 3/16 copper line (or 1/8 black pipe with a zerk at outside of bridge timber would do the trick)
That would require the set up as above.

Or drill a hole alongside the pivot and add  zerk so you can grease between ties
A short nipple can be tack welded on so the zerk is below tie level.

Or I am seeing problems where non exist? But it is easier to do it now.

I think this would be the best long-term solution to solve a few problems, first being that over time when the pivot is greased it will displace any water and not allow water to collect in the pin pockets, and when the grease overflows onto the plates it would be a rust preventer as well. My .02
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Benjamin Campbell on September 20, 2016, 12:02:56 PM
I too had questioned the placement of the male and female bearing components seeing advantages to both arrangements. The advantage of the current arrangement is that the cup bearing will hold oil/grease nicely.  On the other hand - in addition to the possible retention of water I can envision wind driven sand working its way in there creating an oil/sand grinding compound.

Of more concern to me is the use of relatively fragile gray iron for the central pin bearing - it would not take much a shock to snap it. A welded steel center pin should be easy to fabricate – possibly with material on hand – and be much stronger. Just my .02
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Robert Hale on September 20, 2016, 02:13:56 PM
I too had questioned the placement of the male and female bearing components seeing advantages to both arrangements. The advantage of the current arrangement is that the cup bearing will hold oil/grease nicely.  On the other hand - in addition to the possible retention of water I can envision wind driven sand working its way in there creating an oil/sand grinding compound.

Of more concern to me is the use of relatively fragile gray iron for the central pin bearing - it would not take much a shock to snap it. A welded steel center pin should be easy to fabricate – possibly with material on hand – and be much stronger. Just my .02


I think the center pivot is just that, a pivot in this case that would not see any real load to break the pin off. The spider wheels look like they will take the brunt of the forces on the turntable while loaded. As far as the grease, if you pumped 2-3 full tubes of grease into the pivot it would build up a thick wall of grease in the area and keep everything out, sand, water, rust.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on September 20, 2016, 05:45:10 PM
Center pivot is just a guide, no load.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Benjamin Campbell on September 20, 2016, 07:23:15 PM
We are probably fine but “safety first” is the motto of railroads and heavy industry in general. While there is no vertical down load I would think there would be some horizontal load while breaking the engine etc – especially were we to run the engine past center accidentally . Given that our bearing wheels are unflanged we are relying solely on that center pin to keep the ‘bridge’ on the wheel/roller assembly.

We are probably fine but I grew up in a family of architects where such matters were always considered and debated. I have seen so much broken/repaired cast iron in my collecting of old machinery and career as an antique dealer that I tend to be weary of relying too heavily on it for critical applications.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Alan Downey on September 20, 2016, 07:48:52 PM
Due to the presence of the bearing pivot wheels and the slack in the bore for the pivot center, the only possible loading of the center pivot "pin" is shear. It's 4" in diameter. Using very conservative numbers for the yield strength of cast iron, there would have to be a shear load well beyond 100,000 lbs to break it. While I understand the gut reaction to cast iron from antiques, it was heavily used as a structural material, and is appropriate for this application.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Robert Hale on September 20, 2016, 08:21:06 PM
Due to the presence of the bearing pivot wheels and the slack in the bore for the pivot center, the only possible loading of the center pivot "pin" is shear. It's 4" in diameter. Using very conservative numbers for the yield strength of cast iron, there would have to be a shear load well beyond 100,000 lbs to break it. While I understand the gut reaction to cast iron from antiques, it was heavily used as a structural material, and is appropriate for this application.
Given too how the pin was machined with a radius on the transition it eliminates any stress risers at that shear point, and given the better quality of cast iron now I agree that it is a non issue.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Benjamin Campbell on September 20, 2016, 11:52:20 PM
Sounds good. The center pin looked smaller than 4 inches in the photos.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Carl Soderstrom on September 21, 2016, 03:16:00 AM
As long as the drain hole does not freeze shut everything will be sort of OK.

A rubber skirt will keep out most blowing sand & snow.

It is not like it will be used multiple times a day 7/365
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Crabb on September 21, 2016, 05:44:50 PM
     In my post of Sept 16 (pg22) I asked if the lower rails for the turntable bridge had been bent and if so were they bent on-site or sent out. I can't say that in subsequent posts that my question has been answered so I'm asking it again.
     Additionally when working on the lower rails on the 10th we tried to use the hydraulic porta power to bend the rail by backing off the screw on the rail bender so that the hydraulic cylinder would fit between the head on the rail bender and the rail. However, we were unable to do so as some of the treads on the screw of the rail bender are damaged thus preventing us from backing off the screw enough to fit the hydraulic cylinder.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Dwight Winkley on September 21, 2016, 09:10:10 PM
A Posting on WW&F Facebook, Sept 15th said two rails for bottom of turntable and two rails for bearing  pedestal. Four rails were bent.  So all rails for the center of turntable have been bent on site.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Stewart "Start" Rhine on September 21, 2016, 09:49:09 PM
It's actually three rails per set so six total.  Last week four had been bent, more were done today.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on September 22, 2016, 01:44:13 AM
Per the last photo of the turntable central support and recent official posts , two laid-out rail  segments will get a third curved piece  to complete the lower support circle,  to be bolted together with  curved  rail joiners/"fish plates", and presumably  secured into  the concrete via "red head" or wedjit-type bolts.

A matching, inverted circle rail, secured to the woodwork above will  rest on  small wheels riding on the lower  circle rail, and held in place by  axles  radiating from the center pivot, called a "spider", to support and turn the 'table.

Curved rail will be mounted on the short ties in front of the ring wall to guide the turntable's end wheels for support and  alignment with feeder tracks.  

The bottom pivot plate bolts will be epoxied into the concrete.
 
Apparently the pivot elements will remain mounted as planned( male upper/female lower).  It's not yet clear how or if they will be lubricated.

If all pivot/wheels installation work is complete,  a donated crane may flip and set the turntable this week.

 
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bob Holmes on September 22, 2016, 02:21:40 AM
All ring rails (upper and lower) have been curved to the correct radius using the manual rail bender.  The total length of the three curved rails for each is longer than needed.  The best curves from each rail will be cut, joined and fastened as described by others.

Work today on the blocks holding the outer turntable wheels.  The axles for those wheels were prepared yesterday.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Chuck Watford on September 22, 2016, 03:45:03 PM
I wish you had a web cam so we could watch it live! :D
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Robert Hale on September 22, 2016, 03:59:48 PM
I wish you had a web cam so we could watch it live! :D
It will be a lifting experience given the gravity of the situation, but I'm hooked never the less.  ;D
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ira Schreiber on September 22, 2016, 05:11:36 PM
And do not forget that the crane business is always picking up.......................
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Robert Hale on September 22, 2016, 05:47:05 PM
And do not forget that the crane business is always picking up.......................

And booming from what I hear.........
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Stewart "Start" Rhine on September 22, 2016, 08:31:52 PM
Youz guyz better watch out or Clancy Ed will lower the boom on you.  ;D
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on September 23, 2016, 12:13:31 AM
Turntable update.

Machine work on the female side of the center pin is finished.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_8787.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_8789.jpg)

Zack has been threading steel rod for the center bearing assembly and truss rods.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_8793.jpg)

Axle ends threaded for the center bearing.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_8803.jpg)

Two thirds of the center bearing ring rail was installed on the bottom of the turntable deck today.

Fred bringing a section of ring rail over to the table. The yellow circle drawn on the table marks the inside of the ring rail.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_8805.jpg)

Phil drilling pilot holes for lag bolts.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_8809.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_8813.jpg)

The rail on the left still has to cut and fitted.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_8821.jpg)

Overall view. The sets of oak blocks at the end of the turntable are the axle supports for the wheels at the ends of the turntable.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_8827.jpg)



Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Robert Hale on September 23, 2016, 11:54:24 AM
Youz guyz better watch out or Clancy Ed will lower the boom on you.  ;D
Be glad I did not quote Beck: "Two turntables and a microphone".  8)

OT: Progress looks good.
Suggestion: Would it be useful to add a "mini" retaining wall and short section of outside rail on the opposite side of the turntable to facilitate a tractor trailer offloading visiting equipment?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: John McNamara on September 23, 2016, 02:06:16 PM
I think the plan is that visiting equipment would be loaded onto the "woods track" that runs west and beside of the car barn. From there it could be brought anywhere, including onto the turntable.
-John M
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ed Lecuyer on September 23, 2016, 02:50:38 PM
Moreover, there really isn't much space between the edge of the turntable and the street without running into buildings and (most importantly) providing a safe place for a truck to maneuver and load/unload. Having "interchange" in the parking lot area (via the "woods track") provides a great solution for this.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on September 23, 2016, 07:00:16 PM
AFAIK, turntables are never used to transfer or receive track vehicles on/off  rail. And as mentioned, there's not enough safe maneuvering room here.
C&TS uses the  truncated western end of their former Durango mainline in Chama for handling 315, Geese, other visiting equipment.
Silverton Northern built an EOT "dock" on their newly-built engine house-area rails  for the same purpose.

Eventually building an extra turntable "whisker track" for storage? toward Cross Road has been mentioned.

The coming "woods track" is ideal for transfers next to the parking lot, is away from other busy areas of activity.
 
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Phil McCall on September 23, 2016, 08:51:03 PM
Be glad I did not quote Beck: "Two turntables and a microphone".  8)

Why not? The foundation for the Turntable in Albion is still in place, just build a second bridge and drop it in place, easy as pie. I am too far away to do any actual work, but I can provide a microphone.

BTW I am amazed by that perfect circle of rail, using such a basic rail bender. I can't even draw a circle without using a nickel as a pattern.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bob Holmes on September 23, 2016, 11:29:00 PM
Yes, the rail bending crew (Randy, Phil, Phil, and others) did an amazing job of getting nearly perfect circles.  Kudos to them.

The last time I was at the C&TS in 2012, they were using the loading track at Chama to put Thomas the Tank Engine on a trailer.  It had been visiting the C&TS and was on its way to Durango.  I"ll try to find a picture to post.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Joe Fox on September 24, 2016, 02:58:13 AM
Bending the rail is relatively easy. Just use the bender to bring the rail in to the line marked on the cement. The hardest or most frustrating part is continuing to work and re work the rail until it is in the shape you need.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bob Holmes on September 25, 2016, 11:47:16 PM
As of yesterday, outer wheel blocks still need to be installed before turning the TT over.  Latest "rumor" is that crane will not be until Wednesday.  Check with those that know about crane schedule.

With this message, I am trying to post a photo of Thomas at Chama.  Don't know if I will be successful...(http://)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bob Holmes on September 26, 2016, 05:08:02 PM
That didn't work.  Trying again...

(http://)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bob Holmes on September 26, 2016, 05:11:57 PM
Here are the rest

(http://)

(http://)

(http://)

Pictures are small but they appear to use two rails, without ties, bolted together in gauge as a ramp
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bob Holmes on September 26, 2016, 05:13:18 PM
I guess this takes only one picture at a time

(http://)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bob Holmes on September 26, 2016, 05:14:10 PM
Last one -- note weight of Thomas on rail ramp...

(http://)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Stewart "Start" Rhine on September 29, 2016, 08:25:03 PM
The turntable bridge was flipped over today and set on blocking next to the bearing pedestal.  The next work will be building the spider wheel assembly so the bridge can be placed on the pedestal.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on September 29, 2016, 09:52:01 PM
Turntable update.

The ring rail on the underside of the turntable is complete.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_8862.jpg)

The ring rail and female end of the center pin have been installed on the center bearing foundation.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_8963.jpg)

The outer wheels have been installed on the turntable.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_8868.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_8880.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_8885.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_8888.jpg)

The turntable was moved over by the center bearing foundation and flipped over today.

Crane arriving on site Tuesday.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_8877.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_8890.jpg)

Move and flip today.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_8896.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_8902.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_8908.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_8923.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_8926.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_8934.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_8937.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_8953.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_8955.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_8965.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on September 30, 2016, 04:36:08 AM
Wow...well done, everybody!
Like witnessing a ship launch over at Bath Iron Works, where my old destroyer was built.
As usual, thanks Brendan for the great pics.
Oh, one question...will the 'table be complete, with track, when it is finally set ? TIA
Also...will you set the stem wall rail by measurement  before the 'table is set, or use its end wheels to exactly determine placement?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bob Holmes on September 30, 2016, 05:11:53 AM
Brendan, such incredibly cool pictures!!!  Nice job on the endblocks and wheels.  Sure wish I could have been there

Congratulations all.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Chuck Watford on September 30, 2016, 03:28:35 PM
won't be long now!
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Greg Klein on October 04, 2016, 01:53:39 PM
That is great to see!
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on October 08, 2016, 12:03:33 AM
Jason's pictures of the center bearing assembly.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_9055.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_9056.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_9058.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Carl Soderstrom on October 08, 2016, 03:22:47 AM
Nice work

Is the outer band overlaps riveted, bolted, or welded?
How is it held in place on the axles? Double nut? Tack weld?

Could not see.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Harold Downey on October 08, 2016, 11:44:46 AM
The outermost ring is bolted together (it is in two halves).  The wheels are retained by a big cotter pin and a 1/4" thick washer.  There is a split ring just inside the outer ring to hold its position, even though it seems redundant, because the wheels are pulled in snug to the outer ring by adjusting the inside ends of the axles.  These are held in place by two nuts on either side of the middle ring.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on October 08, 2016, 11:51:20 AM
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/Mobile%20Uploads/1008160744_zpsdoignxzy.jpg)

(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/Mobile%20Uploads/1008160744a_zpscl1dsglf.jpg)

(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/Mobile%20Uploads/1008160745_zps5a0a3utp.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on October 08, 2016, 06:33:23 PM
Nice work.
The split ring, Allen-screw-tightened onto each long "spider", makes sense.
Is there a washer between each wheel and the big ring?  ???
Wait...saw washer tops  after careful eyeballing of the pics.
Never mind.   ;)

Looks like it rained there.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Chuck Watford on October 08, 2016, 09:46:51 PM
That looks great! I hope somebody will post a video of the spider being turned before the bridge is set in place and it's covered up. I bet the bridge will turn smooth as silk!
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on October 09, 2016, 12:30:40 AM
Well, the spider moved hard by hand, but when you set a bridge on it...

I have a video of the wheels, but am having trouble uploading it..
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on October 09, 2016, 12:35:46 AM
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/Mobile%20Uploads/1008161735_zps5pvm3jdj.jpg)

(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/Mobile%20Uploads/1008161803a_zpsuqxe0b10.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Steve Smith on October 09, 2016, 03:26:11 AM
Thanks Brendan, Jason, Mike and Harold for the pix and description. Sure looking good!!
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Craig "Red" Heun on October 09, 2016, 11:37:38 AM
Wow! Looks great!  Nice work

(thanks DW for fat finger alert)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on October 09, 2016, 10:01:02 PM
Here is a short video. The bridge was moved from one track to another to check clearance.

https://youtu.be/8pDe84N6hEo (https://youtu.be/8pDe84N6hEo)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ira Schreiber on October 09, 2016, 11:28:07 PM
The rain in Maine falls mainly on the train.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Chuck Watford on October 10, 2016, 04:38:05 PM
Really looking good. Have you decided on some type alignment plate/lock device for the bridge?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on October 10, 2016, 05:18:52 PM
Word from Sheepscot is #9 is on the table as I type. I am awaiting a photo to share
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on October 10, 2016, 06:03:02 PM
Northbound. No turntable shot provided yet.

(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/Mobile%20Uploads/20161010_134359_zpsmdbmlugm.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on October 10, 2016, 06:55:41 PM
Both pictures are from Joe


(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/Mobile%20Uploads/20161010_144508_zpsvioktcbp.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: James Patten on October 10, 2016, 08:24:11 PM
I think I see a big grin on Jason's face.

Proper-looking north-bound shot.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on October 10, 2016, 09:46:37 PM
Another series of pictures from Joe taken earlier in the day

(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/20161010_130311_zpscfej2n8y.jpg)

(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/2016101095130642_zpsrrbezgi5.jpg)

(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/20161010_131043_zpsm1aax4ev.jpg)

(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/20161010_131219_zpswhrjriwc.jpg)

Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on October 10, 2016, 09:51:09 PM
And now, a safety observation. Never, never, never pull on the table or handle to move it. ALWAYS push. If you should loose your footing while pulling on the table, it will be on you before it stops. If you slip while pushing, you will be in the clear of the table movement.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Stewart "Start" Rhine on October 10, 2016, 10:08:28 PM
Good advice Mike. 

The last thing today: Joe and I added spikes at the joint bars on the bridge rails.  The bars are notched so we spiked through the notches which holds the bars in place.  The joints are in the center of the bridge so temp changes won't bother, spiking keeps the rails from creeping on the stringers when the engine brakes or throttles.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Gordon Cook on October 10, 2016, 11:17:17 PM
And now, a safety observation. Never, never, never pull on the table or handle to move it. ALWAYS push. If you should loose your footing while pulling on the table, it will be on you before it stops. If you slip while pushing, you will be in the clear of the table movement.

Excellent and timely thought, Mike.  Thanks.
It's not always obvious that the big thing swaying on the hoist or moving down the track won't stop when it encounters your foot or head. Until it hits you.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Joe Fox on October 11, 2016, 12:14:34 AM
https://youtu.be/11x9ixuzb-c

First spin on the table.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Joe Fox on October 11, 2016, 12:28:46 AM
First steps (wheels) on the table.

https://youtu.be/mmR2lTqB-a0

Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Marcel Levesque on October 11, 2016, 02:07:37 AM
Harry would be proud.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Glenn Christensen on October 11, 2016, 02:34:04 AM
AMEN Marcel!

Best Regards,
Glenn
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Charlie Lacasse on October 11, 2016, 02:50:54 AM
That was so awesome!!! thanx for posting the photos and the links to the vids. Some more great history in the making. I wish I had been able to be there and see it in person. :-)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Sample on October 11, 2016, 02:54:19 AM
I'll guess that this is the first spin for #9 since its final ride on the Wiscasset table in the '1930s.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Chuck Watford on October 11, 2016, 01:53:37 PM
Quote
Harry would be proud.

I think Alice Ramsdell would be, too. #9 sure looks good on that table!
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on October 12, 2016, 12:27:07 AM
Jason's pictures from Saturday.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_9260.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_9261.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_9262.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_9263.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_9264.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_9265.jpg)

Some more from Joe.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_9255.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_9257.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_9258.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_9259.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_9254.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bob Springs on October 12, 2016, 10:12:33 PM
Will the turntable get a 360 degree outer rail or will it only have the outer rail at the "business end" as now?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ed Lecuyer on October 12, 2016, 10:36:51 PM
We need to put this in a "FAQ" somewhere; but it keeps coming up in so many different places...

A 360 degree outer rail is not necessary. Once the locomotive centered is on the bridge, the weight is born completely by the spider wheel. Since there are no tracks on the south side of the table (nor are there likely ever to be any) there is no need to put in the rail there. Moreover, this is the same practice used on the original turntables in Wiscasset and Albion - the outer ring was only present where the tracks came into the circle.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on October 13, 2016, 02:51:01 AM
Here's an idea...
build a 'curb' out of old ties,  maybe two courses high, pegged through with long rebar, along the turntable's swing, around to both ring wall ends.
It will--
*block driving or working in  the 'table's working area.
*keep dirt from washing into the 'pit'.
*maybe satisfy those who want to see an un-needed, full ring wall.
*look cool.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Carl Soderstrom on October 13, 2016, 04:14:03 AM
The photo on page 221 of Jones' edition of "The Maine Two-Footers"
seems to show a curb all the way around the turntable pit - but not a ring rail.

If the curb is 1 tie high it would not be hard to step back out after turning the bridge.
Going down is a lot easier.
If 2 ties high set a short section back a tie width to make a step for us old geezers.

Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Joe Fox on October 13, 2016, 05:54:18 AM
The purpose of not having a pit was to help make it simple and not as dangerous for guests walking through the yard.  by building a retaining wall all the way around the table, that would mean we would have to build a fence of some sort to prevent people from falling into the pit.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jason M Lamontagne on October 13, 2016, 10:25:36 AM
We actually wanted to allow driving into the pit area for mowing and snow removal.

As was the case originally, we may go some time and change our mind. For now, its brand new and functioning.  Let's enjoy it and see what details can be improved based on experience.  We may well eventually decide we need a full ring retaining wall of timber or otherwise.

Our arrangement is very similar to that in Albion.

See ya
Jason
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Benjamin Campbell on October 13, 2016, 01:20:02 PM
Looks great! -- we need a healthy 'ballasting' of coal ash and cinders for the full Albion affect.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Benjamin Campbell on October 13, 2016, 01:27:20 PM
Mindblowing!

On an interesting side note – I was looking through a 1970’s railfan photo album of Maine and found several shots of a standard gauge turntable very much like ours abandoned in the woods but intact (no rails).  A small hand drawn map accompanying the photo gave the location as “Austin Pond” which appears to have been at the end of a short spur off the east side of Maine Central’s Moosehead lake branch – the old Somerset Railroad. The branch left the mainline at Austin Junction which was just below Bingham. My MCRR map shows Austin Jc but not the branch to Austin pond.

If anyone lives in the area it would be interesting to see what if anything remains today. 


Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Chuck Watford on October 13, 2016, 01:53:25 PM
Quote
We actually wanted to allow driving into the pit area for mowing and snow removal.
I think it looks great the way it is, unique without a pit. A little cleanup and some landscaping and it's going to look great next summer.
Congratulations to all for a job well done!
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bob Springs on October 13, 2016, 02:57:54 PM
I think it looks great too.  As pointed out, access into the pit for mowing and snow removal has to be a major plus and the current scheme does provide greater safety, both for visitors and volunteers. So important.   All good points for sure  but also it has that element of simplicity so common in narrow gauge railroading. It has just the right "look" about it. Great job!
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Wayne Laepple on October 13, 2016, 04:36:02 PM
Here's something I'm curious about: in every photograph I've seen of the original WW&F roundhouse in Wiscasset, the engines are facing the turntable. But most other roundhouse photos, the tenders are facing the table. It's always been my understanding that locomotives were placed head in since there was more space to work around the machinery of the locomotive. My question is why the WW&F seems to have done just the opposite.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Philip Marshall on October 13, 2016, 05:26:44 PM
That's an interesting question, Wayne.

Most photos of the SR&RL roundhouse in Phillips show the engines facing the turntable as well, so the WW&F wasn't alone in this practice, whatever the reason (or non-reason) for it may have been.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on October 13, 2016, 05:34:37 PM
I take it any kind of low curb, NOT a wall, even if the 'pit' surround fill is even with the curb top, is not welcome.
Oh well, life lurches on.  ;D
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Joe Fox on October 13, 2016, 05:36:50 PM
Many railroads had the engines face the doors so there is a minimum chance of sparks or hot ashes catching the roof on fire. Not sure what the reasons might be for the continued practice into the coal burning stage, but it might be that the engineers felt more comfortable going ahead onto the table rather than backing up. From experience it is easier to balance the engine going forward rather than trying to back up.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Philip Marshall on October 13, 2016, 05:46:23 PM
Another reason may be simply architectural -- where the smoke jacks are located is where the stack has to go.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Wayne Laepple on October 13, 2016, 05:50:31 PM
The smoke jacks can go wherever the front end of the engine is going to be. And I doubt the engineers had any say in how the roundhouse and turntable were laid out. They had to run the engine in reverse one way or the other!
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Carl Soderstrom on October 14, 2016, 07:12:30 AM
It could be the engines were facing that way because it is more photogenic.
The front end looks better than the back end.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Joe Fox on October 14, 2016, 11:17:46 AM
As Wayne said, engineers preference had nothing to do with it and from a professional stand point railroads do not care about photogenic.

It may have something to do with which direction the engines are likely to go. For example the North Conway engines would head South, so the engines face south. The MEC house in Bartlett would have engines face towards Crawfords so thats how the smoke jacks went in. This would reduce turning. At Wiscasset the engines may have faced North for the same reason. But I do know in the wood burning days they wanted the engines as close to the doors as possible to prevent embers from going into the roof and starting a fire as well as reduced smoke inside the building.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Stephen Piwowarski on October 14, 2016, 06:25:28 PM
I had a hunch which, when followed by a quick image search, was confirmed. Early roundhouses seemed to be set up with smokeboxes facing the turntable. By the 1910's the practice seems to have changed to tenders facing the turntable. I suspect this was not a hard and fast rule, but rather one that developed over time by infrastructure changes.

While the smokejacks above the locomotive were certainly a concern, they could be easily moved in comparison to pits. In the days of Stephenson valve gear and indeed, in general, access under the locomotives machinery was essential. Early pits were seldom the entire length of a roundhouse. Thus, if a pit was towards the turntable end of a roundhouse, it would likely be unlikely for it to change until the next renovation.
I cannot guess, however, why they were set up that way in the first place. Perhaps it had to do with rooflines or access to natural light. More research might turn something up. I think Joe's idea based on the. MEC Mountain Division makes sense.

Steve
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Gordon Cook on October 14, 2016, 07:16:07 PM
In case anyone wants to see and photograph #9 under steam, on the turntable, and beautiful fall colors, we're running trips on Saturday for a couple of groups.
Departures at 11, 12:30 and 2:30 as I understand the schedule.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Phil McCall on October 14, 2016, 10:05:13 PM
It could be the engines were facing that way because it is more photogenic.
The front end looks better than the back end.

Generally true in all walks of life, eh? A joke during my grandmother's time was "you look like the south end of a northbound horse", when I was young a dig was "You are so ugly that when you were born the doctor turned you over and said "Look, twins!".

My guess would be Joe's idea, which way the engines would depart.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Philip Marshall on October 15, 2016, 02:12:23 AM
Steve, Your very thoughtful post has me looking for pre-1910 photos of roundhouses with tenders facing out. :)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ed Lecuyer on October 15, 2016, 02:19:17 AM
Recall that the Wiscasset roundhouse doors open on the inside. Perhaps there is a connection there. That would yield more space around the front of the locomotive.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Carl Soderstrom on October 15, 2016, 03:49:05 AM
Joe - I was not thinking of the smoke vents but if the
crews might have set up locos for the photographer.

For a long time it was a big deal to get your picture took.

Natural light may also have a something to do with it
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bob Holmes on October 15, 2016, 11:32:44 PM
Today I had the chance to help turn #9 on the turntable at the end of the day.  It was amazing how smooth and easy it was to turn.  What a testament to the design and the builders!
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: John Scott on October 16, 2016, 01:06:53 AM
As a little research will readily show, there are plenty of precedents for engine house arrangements and engine stabling practices of all kinds. In more modern times, railroads that painted large engine numbers on the rear of their engine tenders would find it convenient to have those tenders facing out for purposes of ready engine identification. In other circumstances, the minimisation of the cost and mass of smoke jacks could be a consideration.

Apart from all this, it might be observed that turntables generally come in pairs. Accordingly, one might wonder where the second WW&F turntable will be located.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on October 16, 2016, 01:46:30 AM
John,
How about 3 turntables. We were given two turning rail and bearing bases for a 250 ton crane. We just need to attach the proper size steel beams.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: John Scott on October 16, 2016, 01:53:09 AM
Mike, I suppose a TOM engine facility for snappers is a possibility ......
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Stephen Piwowarski on October 16, 2016, 11:55:11 AM
We'll have to put it back in the woods. That way we can confuse folks when the locomotive is facing the opposite direction when it comes back.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: John Scott on October 16, 2016, 12:00:08 PM
Actually, I would be interested to know in which direction of travel the engines ride better, especially whilst curving?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on October 16, 2016, 12:46:22 PM
Saturdays preference was a north facing engine. Perhaps because it is still a new way to run.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Roger Cole on October 16, 2016, 01:17:28 PM
Most steam tourist railroads that I am familiar with run the engines forward on the upgrade portion of the trip.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Gordon Cook on October 16, 2016, 01:21:15 PM
Mansfield was right:  4-4-0's ride much better than 0-4-4's.

For me it was mostly because it was a treat to run on a 'different' railroad with 9 facing north on Saturday.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: John Kokas on October 16, 2016, 02:07:43 PM
I would think that using #9 and (eventually #10) by turning them every other run would be beneficial as it would balance wear on the running gear over time.  Not to mention the visitor experience of turning a locomotive in between trips.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jason M Lamontagne on October 16, 2016, 06:32:10 PM
Honestly, we're not worried about wear balancing- but we do plan to turn frequently, perhaps every trip, as a means of improving visitor experience.  That said- we'all watch wear patterns to see if there's a change.  The wear patterns over the past 20 years of operation already appear quite equal.

See ya
Jason
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: James Patten on October 16, 2016, 09:43:26 PM
The only problem with #9 facing north is that when giving signals yesterday to start the train I couldn't recall which way it was facing!
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Harold Downey on October 16, 2016, 10:07:48 PM
I would really like to compliment the team that assembled the bridge. 

When I was helping Rick Sisson decide where to cut the rails, we set a stake and marked one main beam corner, then rotated to the other main beam to check it, finally rotating the whole bridge 180 degrees to check both beams on the other end.   Relative to the mark on the stake, the other three beam corners were within the width of the line on the stake.   

This is nearly unbelievable accuracy.  The structure is amazingly square and the pivot is perfectly centered. 
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ken Fleming on October 16, 2016, 10:31:39 PM
I mentioned this before, but "spinning" the cars is also a good practice for weathering.  It also will present a different look to train lineup.  B end of cars all
North or South.  Especially the caboose.  
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Sample on October 19, 2016, 01:21:43 AM
Weather exposure is very evident on the RMNE's former Rutland #260 combine, donated to us by the Vermont Rail System.  The wood-bodied car's present west side certainly had far more "weather-wear" than does the east side.  The west side is also the station platform side so it is being repaired, including a new baggage door prior to our Christmas operation.  Unlike the WW&F the RMNE's Naugatuck Railroad has no turntable or wye so we don't have any easy way to turn our equipment. 
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Philip Marshall on October 19, 2016, 02:54:33 AM
I took the shop tour at the Strasburg RR two summers ago and was told they have a terrible problem with uneven weathering. Their line runs east to west and they have no turning facilities, so the south sides of all of their wooden cars really suffer -- and the paint shop is always busy.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ed Lecuyer on October 19, 2016, 02:57:24 PM
Wayne Laepple has an article about our turntable in Trains' Newswire:
http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2016/10/19-wwf-volunteers-complete-turntable-construction-project (http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2016/10/19-wwf-volunteers-complete-turntable-construction-project)

You do need to be a subscriber to Trains to read it.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Baskerville on October 20, 2016, 02:17:57 AM
The great thing about the Car Barn is that all weathering will now be minimal.  Since we appear to have enough curves in both directions that wear balance isn't an issue we should be in good shape on both fronts.

Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Steve Smith on October 20, 2016, 04:21:54 PM
Wayne, that’s a fine article on the turntable in the Trains newsletter. Thank you for that one and the various others on the WW&F you’ve written for Trains. What a great way to spread the word!
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ira Schreiber on October 20, 2016, 04:52:38 PM
I could not agree with Steve Smith more.
Thank you Wayne.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on October 21, 2016, 02:58:53 PM
Lincoln County new did an article on the Turntable project.
http://lcnme.com/currentnews/alna-railway-museum-completes-turntable/ (http://lcnme.com/currentnews/alna-railway-museum-completes-turntable/)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ed Lecuyer on October 22, 2016, 01:52:47 PM
[Moderators Note]
A discussion on which way a locomotive faces, etc. was split off to:
http://forum.wwfry.org/index.php?topic=2825.0 (http://forum.wwfry.org/index.php?topic=2825.0)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on October 22, 2016, 03:23:07 PM
Decking has been installed on the turntable walkways. Boards still have to be ripped to fit next to the rail stringer. The center section between the rails is being left open.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/turntable/IMG_9299.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on October 22, 2016, 09:54:41 PM
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/Mobile%20Uploads/1022161506b_zpsms5xz2gk.jpg)
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Fred L. Kuhns on October 23, 2016, 01:33:09 AM
 Mike, The grading around the turntable appears to look completed, will the generator be returned to the west wall of the shop building?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on October 23, 2016, 12:45:01 PM
I think the plan is for the generator to stay where it is. As far as grading, it is done for now. There is talk of using the material hauled in by the state as topsoil, and seed it over.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jason M Lamontagne on October 23, 2016, 12:48:04 PM
There are actually plans to move the generator, pending a campus wide electrical distribution overhaul.  Ultimately we want the generator hidden and to minimize modern looking incursions in the entire area.

Mike's grading looks nice in the pictures.  Can't wait to see it in person.

See ya
Jason
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on October 23, 2016, 05:30:58 PM
I think it may aid in your push pole design
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Joe Fox on October 23, 2016, 10:32:02 PM
Thoughts for the future roundhouse, could we hide the generator behind it, and or put the electrical room in the small tool room that was built off to the side of the roundhouse?
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Wayne Laepple on October 23, 2016, 11:23:18 PM
I think someone once told me the roundhouse annex was to be a blacksmith shop.
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on August 07, 2017, 03:30:44 PM
No. 9 going for a spin Sunday.

https://youtu.be/5lp8ebQ_6AU
Title: Re: Sheepscot Turntable - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bob Holmes on August 08, 2017, 01:07:38 PM
So way cool!!  And so seemingly ordinary.  Great to involve visitors in the action...almost as good as a cab ride.