W.W.&F. Discussion Forum

Other Maine Narrow Gauges (Historic & Preserved) => Maine Narrow Gauge Museum => Topic started by: Joe Fox on January 08, 2015, 08:55:49 PM

Title: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: Joe Fox on January 08, 2015, 08:55:49 PM
Any more word on relocating to Gray? When track laying is going to begin, please post something here. If it is a day when not much is going on at the WW&F, a few of us may be able to come over to help you build some track.
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: Hansel Fardon on January 12, 2015, 01:58:25 AM
I'm sure the Directors will have all the news stations report it when the time comes.
The yard and buildings have been mapped out, but they've been working at a slow pace to make sure everything turns out alright. The plan is to have a Wye coming out of the station, and a turntable at the other end, similar to TVRM's set up.

And from what I've heard, track layers will be hired. But I'm sure me or Bill would let you know when they're ready!

Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: Mike Fox on January 12, 2015, 02:10:24 AM
Hired? I hate to ask how much that will cost.
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: James Patten on January 12, 2015, 02:22:29 AM
Hence the need for $6 million before they can move. 
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: John McNamara on January 12, 2015, 02:28:23 AM
And from what I've heard, track layers will be hired. But I'm sure me or Bill would let you know when they're ready!
We'll be happy to quote them a fair price. ;)
-John
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: Wayne Laepple on January 12, 2015, 02:33:18 AM
Don't laugh. Our friends at the Puffing Billy Railway in Australia have hired themselves out to two or three other railway museums to build or repair track and turned a nice profit to the Puffing Billy to further its goals. Might be worth considering, especially since we have the only two-foot gauge tamper on this side of the Atlantic.
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: Mark Spremulli on January 12, 2015, 02:41:32 AM
I'm sure the Directors will have all the news stations report it when the time comes.
The yard and buildings have been mapped out, but they've been working at a slow pace to make sure everything turns out alright. The plan is to have a Wye coming out of the station, and a turntable at the other end, similar to TVRM's set up.

And from what I've heard, track layers will be hired. But I'm sure me or Bill would let you know when they're ready!


What else you can say about the yard layout, Hansel? It sounds interesting.
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: Hansel Fardon on January 12, 2015, 08:22:36 AM
The plan is to have a 2 story station. museum/gift shop on bottom, offices on top. There's so much buildings planned, I couldnt tell you at the top of my head. However, there will be buildings dedicated for shops and housing equipment. This also includes a roundhouse and turntable! If all goes as planned, it will be quite a sight.
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: Philip Marshall on January 12, 2015, 06:10:12 PM
The plan is to have a Wye coming out of the station, and a turntable at the other end, similar to TVRM's set up.

So the turntable will be at the station/museum and the wye will be at the other end of the line?

I really hope the donors come forward to make this possible. It sounds amazing.
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: Hansel Fardon on January 12, 2015, 06:50:11 PM
Nope. The plan is to have 2 turntables. One at the roundhouse and one at the end of track. Trains will arrive and depart the station via wye.
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: Philip Marshall on January 12, 2015, 08:44:12 PM
Nope. The plan is to have 2 turntables. One at the roundhouse and one at the end of track. Trains will arrive and depart the station via wye.

Wow, that's even more impressive than I'd thought! Thank you for the clarification.
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: James Patten on January 12, 2015, 10:42:22 PM
Any blueprints available?
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: Bill Piche on January 12, 2015, 11:12:06 PM
The only current site plan for the grounds that I'm aware of is hanging up in the break room at the museum.
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: Mike Fox on January 12, 2015, 11:22:35 PM
Here is a drawing they have attached to their appeal.
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: Joe Fox on January 12, 2015, 11:59:17 PM
Professional track layers will cost a lot of money. Please keep in mind that there are plenty of guys around with track building experience who may be able to help build track. A rough figure to have a contractor come in would be around $4,000-$8,000 per week depending on if they need to bring or rent machines. That is a big chunk of money. Personally, I think it would be nice to try and use volunteer labor with a good leader. Try to organize track laying weekends a couple of times and see how it goes. At the WW&F, with no machines, our record was 1200' in a weekend.
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: Hansel Fardon on January 13, 2015, 01:03:10 AM
Most MNG volunteers are incapable of track crew. And even if the railroad announced a track work session, only a half dozen (at the most) would show up.

Is hiring expensive? Yes, but I'm not the boss, just the messenger.
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: Wayne Laepple on January 13, 2015, 01:14:17 AM
"Here is a drawing they have attached to their appeal."

A bit of overkill, I think.
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: John Stone on January 13, 2015, 01:21:25 AM
Will trains arrive and depart from both levels?
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: Mike Fox on January 13, 2015, 01:30:23 AM
I tend to agree Wayne, but this is what they put out there, so just thought I'd share. If I could figure how to share the video, I would do so as well.

As far as track work, that is easily taught to anyone willing to do a little manual labor. There is a sense of pride that goes along with doing.
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: Andre Anderson on January 13, 2015, 04:00:33 AM
And from what I've heard, track layers will be hired. But I'm sure me or Bill would let you know when they're ready!
We'll be happy to quote them a fair price. ;)
-John

I think that would be a win win situation, the WW&F makes a little money and they get track.

Andre
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: John McNamara on January 13, 2015, 04:21:56 AM
My remark was meant in jest. I think that we should train a few of their guys (Hans Brandes, Hansel Fardon, etc.) at one of our track laying sessions and then dispatch a team of our guys to help them get started at their site. Many of us at each railroad are members at, and donors to, both railroads. The success of both railroads brings more national and international visitors to both railroads.

-John
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: Joe Fox on January 13, 2015, 03:15:55 PM
Understandable Hansel, but in my honest opinion here, Maine Narrow Gauges future relies on volunteers doing manual labor to the track, especially since that is what the train runs on. I can remember the times I showed up to do track work, and every one looking at me like I was crazy, and had just said a nasty word. Is track work fun, no. But hiring a track crew every time work needs to be done will be to costly. A few years ago it was like pulling teeth to get 6 guys to come out and work with the contractors.

Just my two cents worth, but I think its time that  MNG starts making it a policy that those who are under the age of 50 should help do something else besides train crew. This is my biggest  reason on why I don't have an interest in going there. Because all any one wants to do is play trains and not work. The only actual workers there are the steam team and a few wood workers.
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: Hansel Fardon on January 13, 2015, 11:31:37 PM
Joe, I agree. If I was the boss, MNG would look a lot like the WW&F. However, they are more concerned about running trains and making money than doing track work and restoration. With a new director and operations manager, I think next year (2015) will be better, as they are trying to come up with a track bugdet.

And for thoses of you who don't know, I come up to the WW&F work weekends (as I'm a regular volunteer) and actually LIKE track crew. It helps when you get to work with the greatest guys and girls around!
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: Wayne Laepple on January 14, 2015, 01:05:05 AM
MNG is going to get a big surprise when they start looking for railroad contractors to build track for them. If they can get anyone to bid, I'm betting the cost will run over $100 per track-foot. The labor cost is going to be out of this world, as most track contractors are mechanized to a great extent, and there is very little two-foot gauge track machinery on this side of the Atlantic. Therefore, they will have to depend on manual labor to get the job done. Instead of half a dozen men to operate track machines, they will need twice as many men to manhandle ties and rail, not to mention surfacing the track. This is gonna be interesting......
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: John Kokas on January 14, 2015, 04:38:58 PM
I think $100/lf is being very conservative
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: Joe Fox on January 14, 2015, 07:16:20 PM
I think that is fairly realistic up here. A surfacing crew with tamper and regulator charge $1.50 per foot. To actually lay the track almost all by hand I would estimate to be around $300,000 for the labor, and tools such as air compressor, hydro pump, etc to build 2 miles of track.
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: Steve Smith on January 14, 2015, 07:29:17 PM
That's about $28/ft.
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: John Stone on January 14, 2015, 10:31:45 PM
How soon must MNG vacate Portland?
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: Wayne Laepple on January 15, 2015, 12:40:03 AM
Thirty years ago, I had a track contractor doing repairs to track already in place, and the cost in 1984 was around $35 a foot. That's about $80 today, based on inflation. Like I said, for new track construction, it will be at least $100 a track foot.
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: Mike Fox on January 15, 2015, 01:36:46 AM
Unfortunately, due to their volunteer base they have, this is what they must do. I can understand the reasoning.
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: John Kokas on January 15, 2015, 02:26:53 AM
Having done track repair contracts myself, Wayne's numbers are quite realistic; probably tie replacement, ballast, line / level / tamp, bolts and tightening, and brooming/dressing.  All I can assume is that they are getting free rail, ties, jewelry, and associated shipping costs.
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: Carl G. Soderstrom on January 15, 2015, 03:57:49 AM
Could not MNG lift track panels from Portland and drop them in Grays?
Or is everything going to be operational before the move? Or a combination thereof.

Carl

Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: John McNamara on January 15, 2015, 04:52:17 AM
A lot of MNG track is re-purposed standard gauge track with one rail moved in. At least in the early days, the city had a desire that the track be convertible back to standard gauge. With standard length ties and 85 lb/yd rail, picking it up would be a challenge. I don't remember if the joints are staggered, but if they are, that would make it even more fun.
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: James Patten on January 15, 2015, 12:11:10 PM
At one point word was that MNG still wants a presence in Portland to run a train back and forth.  Whether this is still in the cards or not I don't know.
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: Vincent "Lightning" LeRow on January 15, 2015, 04:03:08 PM
MNGs current rail was pulled up from yard trackage and re-laid in it's current position.  The contract stated that we use standard gauge ties with one rail spiked in the running position for std. gauge track. (this directly led to the surfacing issues that MNG is dealing with now) The rail was worn when MNG acquired it and is even more so now.  To re-lay the 85 lb would be foolish, as it only has a few years of usable life left in it.
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: Joe Fox on February 02, 2015, 01:33:19 PM
What do they plan to use for rail?
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: Joe Fox on February 02, 2015, 01:38:25 PM
Also read the online fund raiser you guys were doing only raised 1,265 of a desired 20,000. Any plan or fundraising ideas to try to get the rest of the money or additional money to help with the multi million dollar move?
Title: Re: Relocating update to Gray?
Post by: Hansel Fardon on February 05, 2015, 09:24:50 AM
Me and Bill aren't Boardmembers, we're just part of the steam crew.