W.W.&F. Discussion Forum

Worldwide Narrow Gauges => Other Narrow Gauge => Topic started by: Hansel Fardon on June 18, 2013, 12:39:07 AM

Title: Cumbres & Toltec 463 (K-27)
Post by: Hansel Fardon on June 18, 2013, 12:39:07 AM
Old news,
But 463 started running again earlier this year! Here's a nice video I found:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc_bdCcZilA
Title: Re: Cumbres & Toltec 463 (K-27)
Post by: Stewart "Start" Rhine on June 18, 2013, 11:17:08 AM
Thanks for the link Hansel,

Nice sequence at Tanglefoot, that Mudhen sure is pretty.  Can't wait to see the 463 doublehead with the 315 later this year.  That will be something!

Stewart
Title: Re: Cumbres & Toltec 463 (K-27)
Post by: Keith Taylor on June 18, 2013, 01:26:07 PM
Starting in the July/August issue of Live Steam and Outdoor Railroading magazine is a series on building a 1/10th scale, 3 - 1/2" gauge live steam model of a D&RGW K-27. This series is by noted live steam designer and builder, Kozo Hiraoka.

This should make a very impressive model well able to haul an impressive load.

Keith
Title: Re: Cumbres & Toltec 463 (K-27)
Post by: Stewart "Start" Rhine on June 18, 2013, 03:34:51 PM
Hi Keith,

I bet a K27 would be a nice live steam model.  There was a G-scale K27 running (on rollers) at the Bachmann booth at the Big E show last January.  It looked and sounded great.  Good thing I'm not into garden railroading!

Stewart
Title: Re: Cumbres & Toltec 463 (K-27)
Post by: Keith Taylor on June 18, 2013, 03:47:21 PM
Hi Keith,

I bet a K27 would be a nice live steam model.  There was a G-scale K27 running (on rollers) at the Bachmann booth at the Big E show last January.  It looked and sounded great.  Good thing I'm not into garden railroading!

Stewart
Hi Stewart, in the garden gauges.....this is the one that would be perfect for you:
http://www.accucraft.com/modelc/AL87-160-C.htm

And live steam too!
Keith
Title: Re: Cumbres & Toltec 463 (K-27)
Post by: Stewart "Start" Rhine on June 18, 2013, 04:10:36 PM
Wow Keith, 

That looks real good but I think I'll keep working on that other railroad ... the one that's 1 to 1 scale  ;D

Stewart
Title: Re: Cumbres & Toltec 463 (K-27)
Post by: Keith Taylor on June 18, 2013, 04:56:41 PM
Wow Keith, 

That looks real good but I think I'll keep working on that other railroad ... the one that's 1 to 1 scale  ;D

Stewart
You can always do both.....I do.

Keith
Title: Re: Cumbres & Toltec 463 (K-27)
Post by: Stewart "Start" Rhine on June 18, 2013, 08:04:03 PM
Forgot to mention -

The 463 is going to be in a movie.  For filming, the 1930's tender lettering has been blanked out and large "D&RGW" letters have been applied (which I don't think the loco ever had). There is also a fake diamond stack which has not been put on.  Not sure the name of the movie but I've heard that shooting starts fairly soon.
Title: Re: Cumbres & Toltec 463 (K-27)
Post by: Richard "Steam" Symmes on June 18, 2013, 08:50:45 PM
Hollywood always wants to "age" steam locomotives with inappropriate doo-dads.  Especially for Western movies.  I hope this one is better than most of them.

At least this will be something other than the poor old Sierra Railroad #3 for a change.

Didn't the late cowboy star Gene Autry once own the #463?  I think it was part of his old Melody Ranch movie set.  I caught it in a couple of episodes of the "Gunsmoke" series back in the b&w days of the late 1950s.  Then it disappeared.
Title: Re: Cumbres & Toltec 463 (K-27)
Post by: Stewart "Start" Rhine on June 18, 2013, 10:32:32 PM
True,  Hollywood is good at making steam locos look strange with things like odd colors, fake stacks, headlights and deer antlers.  At least 463 will earn some much needed $$$ for the C&TS and the movie make up can be easily removed. 

Yes, the "singing cowboy" Gene Autry saved the engine and it was on his ranch until returning to the C&TS for restoration which has now happened twice. 
Title: Re: Cumbres & Toltec 463 (K-27)
Post by: Hansel Fardon on June 18, 2013, 11:58:19 PM
Keith,
I'd go with a 2.5" scale (7.25" gauge) k-27. That way I can ride on the tender instead of a flatcar.
Too bad WW&F didn't have a mikado.... :-)
Title: Re: Cumbres & Toltec 463 (K-27)
Post by: Keith Taylor on June 19, 2013, 03:38:40 PM
Keith,
I'd go with a 2.5" scale (7.25" gauge) k-27. That way I can ride on the tender instead of a flatcar.
Too bad WW&F didn't have a mikado.... :-)
Hansel;
3 - 1/2" gauge is about all I can handle these days. At 1/10th full size the 3 - 1/2" gauge version will still be plenty big enough to ride on the tender on a ground level track. The 3 - 1/2" gauge version still comes out at about 6' long for the engine and tender.
 But virtually all of the clubs in the Northeast U.S. and eastern Canada have their 3 - 1/2" gauge tracks on an elevated trestle system. Riding on a flat car behind is much safer on an elevated track.
Keith
Title: Re: Cumbres & Toltec 463 (K-27)
Post by: Glenn Christensen on June 19, 2013, 04:29:30 PM
I'd go with a 2.5" scale (7.25" gauge) k-27. That way I can ride on the tender instead of a flatcar.
Too bad WW&F didn't have a mikado.... :-)

Hi Hansel,

When it comes to things live steam, Keith is a good guy to listen to.

But you might like to know that in addition to the Porter 2-8-0 proposed for use on the WW&F, there were quite a few 2' and 30" gauge 2-8-0s and 2-8-2s built by Baldwin for the export market.  The more modern design of Baldwin 2-8-2 built for both gauges was very closely based on the design of SR&RL #23.  A gentleman named David Bloyed, frequents these pages and he owns the complete set of Baldwin drawings for these locomotives.  He might want to add a word in here. 


Best Regards,
Glenn
Title: Re: Cumbres & Toltec 463 (K-27)
Post by: Hansel Fardon on June 19, 2013, 08:00:52 PM
I actually own kozo's pennsy A3 book and talked to MNG volunteers who own live steam. Big or small, lathes are WAY too expensive for a teenage boy!

A 2-8-2 would seem too big for WW&Fs sharp curves anyway.
Title: Re: Cumbres & Toltec 463 (K-27)
Post by: Hansel Fardon on June 20, 2013, 02:15:06 PM
Found a video of 463 already with its funky headlight and movie consist:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDN1jqV8Puw
Title: Re: Cumbres & Toltec 463 (K-27)
Post by: Stewart "Start" Rhine on June 20, 2013, 04:25:53 PM
Nice video.  I like the ending runbys with the K27 pulling 14 freight cars + caboose.  The headlight looks somewhat like the one it had when delivered new from Baldwin so it's not too crazy looking.
Title: Re: Cumbres & Toltec 463 (K-27)
Post by: Hansel Fardon on June 24, 2013, 12:41:29 PM
Holly caterpillars! Never seen anything like this before!:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN6O0J1rLpY
Title: Re: Cumbres & Toltec 463 (K-27)
Post by: Richard "Steam" Symmes on June 24, 2013, 12:54:10 PM
Oh, yeah?  Well, believe it. I've been there and seen it!

Back in 1972 we drove out there and rode both the C&TS and the Silverton trains.

The C&TS train got "stuck" right in the spot where your video was made. Right by the water tank. We had only one locomotive on the train. The caterpillars were just as deep as you see here. The locomotive could not get started with the train attached. So they uncoupled and moved the locomotive ahead about a couple of hundred feet, putting down sand as they went. Meantime, crew members with cans and shovels went along and put down more sand.  Guys with brooms went way up ahead and tried to sweep the rails beyond.

Eventually they recoupled to the train and we got going again, but it delayed us by nearly an hour. The evidence of the encounter was a greenish "paste" all over the railheads.

I have pictures!
Title: Re: Cumbres & Toltec 463 (K-27)
Post by: Ira Schreiber on June 24, 2013, 08:16:00 PM
I was there in 1971 and have photos of the Great Caterpillar Migration stopping the train. A crew member stood on the pilot with a bucket of sand and spread it on the rails. It was quite a sight.
Ira Schreiber
Who is in Colorado
Title: Re: Cumbres & Toltec 463 (K-27)
Post by: Hansel Fardon on June 24, 2013, 09:53:38 PM
By the way, these videos weren't filmed by me. I've never been out west. If we had caterpillars migrating in Alna, we'd be in trouble!
Title: Re: Cumbres & Toltec 463 (K-27)
Post by: Richard "Steam" Symmes on June 24, 2013, 10:57:43 PM
Hey, there's plenty of sand in Maine. Get some coffee cans and start pouring it on the track. No worries!
Title: Re: Cumbres & Toltec 463 (K-27)
Post by: Steve Smith on June 25, 2013, 06:45:07 PM
Anybody know about how long each season, or each time the caterpillars come, they plague the C & TS?

I wonder whether they ever experimented with some sort of narrow-slit air or steam blasting device just ahead of the pony truck to see if it would knock all or most of the critters off the rail without increasing coal/water consumption to an impractical degree.
Title: Re: Cumbres & Toltec 463 (K-27)
Post by: Ira Schreiber on June 25, 2013, 10:35:49 PM
The caterpillars seem to appear every few years in the huge masses that slow the trains. The migration usually is only a week or so.

Ira in Colorado