Author Topic: Down the Mountain to Trout Brook - Official Work Thread  (Read 58787 times)

James Patten

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Down the Mountain to Trout Brook - Official Work Thread
« on: July 14, 2009, 04:01:09 PM »
Do you think we may be able to make it to 218 by the 25th year?

I'd call it a definite maybe.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2014, 10:55:00 PM by Ed Lecuyer »

Joe Fox

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Re: Down the Mountain to Trout Brook - Official Work Thread
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2009, 01:16:26 AM »
Just out of curriosity, how much money, roughly, would it take to lay down the remaining track to 218, including the bridge?

Allan Fisher

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Re: Down the Mountain to Trout Brook - Official Work Thread
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2009, 04:52:29 AM »
A reasonable estimate for 6000 track feet of rail would be $120,000 at todays rail price.

$70,000 for ties, spikes and culverts.

$100,000 to repair two large washouts and one major landslide.

$60,000 in excavating and ballast costs.

$30,000 for the queen truss bridge over Carleton Brook (this may be high)

Total is $380,000.

If we used annual fundraiser for next 7 years just to extend track, we could be at Rt 218 in 6 to 7 years.

But as you know we have other needs to provide for.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 12:08:55 PM by Ed Lecuyer »
Allan Fisher

Paul Horky

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Re: Down the Mountain to Trout Brook - Official Work Thread
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2009, 03:36:17 AM »
On a shorter term goal how much will it cost to put down track from current EOT to TOM or has the board desided to stop where it is now? Also how much will it cost to finish the rebuild of #9?

Allan Fisher

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Re: Down the Mountain to Trout Brook - Official Work Thread
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2009, 04:37:03 AM »
As I keep saying to those of you who think the only ideas or plans come from this discussion forum. Relax, take a deep cleansing breath, and have a little faith in your board. Also read the long range plan again. All will happen in good time, and the museum will not lose momentum or the faith of its tracklaying and non-tracklaying volunteers.

All will be well, I promise.

Remember that the newsletters and the annual capital fund raising letter are the principal methods of sharing information from the board - NOT this discussion forum.
Allan Fisher

Ed Lecuyer

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Re: Down the Mountain to Trout Brook - Official Work Thread
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2009, 12:19:43 PM »
To echo what Allan said...
I heard this at Sheepscot the other day:
"The discussion forum is nice, but the decision forum meets once a month in the Percival house."

The BOD does read this forum and the ideas are shared. However, the forum is not the place where official announcements, etc. are normally disseminated. Not everyone on the BOD has computer access, either. We also have to remember that the BOD is privy to information that can not be shared publicly, but has a major impact on what decisions are made and how they are carried out.

It would be great to get a bucket of money and rebuild to 218 and/or Head Tide, or south to Wiscasset. But then what? The operation and maintenance would exceed our current capabilities. We have to grow slowly - and not make a classic mistake of getting too big, too soon.

When I did a limited amount of railroad modeling, the fun part didn't come when the layout was "done", it came in the building of the track, models, trains, etc. We're effectively doing the same thing.

I guess the best thing to do if one feels strongly about a particular issue is to find one of the BOD members and ask them directly. I also understand that BOD meetings are open to the membership.

Overall, I think we're doing an amazing job following the Long Range Plan that has laid out our growth strategy since 2005. We've been steadily increasing the mainline, continuing to maintain our locomotives, cars, and track. Car 103 was restored - although work still needs to be done on the roof. #9's restoration is entering its final stages, the water tank is operational, and we have a new flat car. Planning for the restrooms and new parking facilities is done, with land clearing underway and grading anticipated for early this fall. We extended our shop, allowing more space for indoor storage.

Also, many of the minor projects have been completed (or are well underway.) We've cleared Averill Road and now can store stone at Alna Center. We've started to improve volunteer intercommunication (in part, through this forum.) I can't speak for accounting, financial development, or marketing, but I do know we have had some action (and success) in securing grants that have contributed to the completion of many projects. Sheepscot Mills is assembled, ready for use; and the Model T will be finished within a handful of weeks.

And that's just what I know off the top of my head as a non-BOD member "from away."

Let's be proud of what we've accomplished in the last 5 years, and look forward to the next. 
Ed Lecuyer
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Paul Horky

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Re: Down the Mountain to Trout Brook - Official Work Thread
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2009, 11:54:50 PM »
I guess I must be the MOST HATED person to post on this forum as it seems any time I post I am either pasted by or I am rebuffed in some way. I get the feeling the BOD would just asoon I went away someplace.

John McNamara

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Re: Down the Mountain to Trout Brook - Official Work Thread
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2009, 12:19:06 AM »
Paul,

Hopefully, a lot of your questions can be answered by looking at the Long Range Plan at http://www.wwfry.org/projects/longrangeplan.pdf or reading the WW&F Newsletter, a copy of which should be arriving at all members' doorsteps on August 1.

-John

Ed Lecuyer

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Re: Down the Mountain to Trout Brook - Official Work Thread
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2009, 02:06:14 AM »
Woah!

I'm not going to edit your post, Paul, but I really do not think that the BOD has anything against you, or anyone else who participates in this forum.

I think we all are passionate about the WW&F and that passion manifests itself in different ways. Some can serve as BOD members, some can be weekly volunteers, some can help from afar on certain projects, some can be "armchair railfans" and wish they had the time, money, and/or opportunity to help the WW&F in person.

All of us mingle in the Forum, all show passion and dedication, and there is a place for us all at this table.

I believe, in this instance, the BOD was simply trying to let us (the general membership) know that the decision had been made as to what the configuration would be at the Top of the Mountain. Frankly, I thank them for chosing the forum as that medium, and trust their judgement. I can also observe that the discussions and ideas here have had impact at the museum.

In short, Paul (and anyone else), you are welcome (and encouraged) to discuss the WW&F here. As far as I am concerned, only topics that could have a negative impact on the railroad museum are off limits. (Sometimes I know in advance what they are, sometimes I do not.) I do not consider the TOM discussion closed - we still have to build it. But, for now, the BOD has given us the courtesy of letting us know what their intent is when we get that far.

Let's work together to get there, then on to 218 and beyond.
Ed Lecuyer
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Ed Lecuyer

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Re: Down the Mountain to Trout Brook - Official Work Thread
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2009, 02:11:32 AM »
On a shorter term goal how much will it cost to put down track from current EOT to TOM or has the board decided to stop where it is now?

It is my understanding that there will be additional track laid this fall. However, the grading is not completed to the TOM. (It's pretty close, but not quite.) I suspect we'll know soon exactly what the plans are - I do not believe they have been settled, yet. (We also are awaiting a shipment of rail, which until it arrives at Sheepscot, is never a done deal.)

The annual fundraising letter is due out soon - and I'm sure the details will be settled by then.
Ed Lecuyer
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Stewart "Start" Rhine

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Re: Down the Mountain to Trout Brook - Official Work Thread
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2009, 12:24:26 PM »
I live nearly 600 miles from the railroad and get to Sheepscot 4-5 times a year.  Over the last 12 years I have been able to sit in on a few Board meetings and have always been welcomed warmly.  I can state that the Board carefully considers all requests and ideas that come before the panel.  The best way for members to submit an idea is to send a letter to the President or Board Secretary.  It will be read and discussed.  Ed's "echo" post was spot on.  Speaking as the Board Chair of my local Fire Department, there are a number of things that affect Board rulings.  Some are not broadcast to the membership at large.  The most crucial issues are often driven by financial and legal concerns.  The legal aspects for the WW&F Board include right-of-way preparation and land use.  These decisions are best left to the Board members that we elect to govern the museum. 

I look forward to seeing the mainline and siding track built at TOM but I understand that there are a number of things affecting the extension.  The well known issues have already been discussed.  Another issue is that the museum does not own all of the land that we build track on.  Agreements with land owners are key to our expansion.  As I remember the museum has to get land use agreements for some of the ground at TOM.   There are a number of things that must be worked out in a certain order and land agreements are at the top of the list.  Being a good neighbor with families who own land in Alna is key to our local support and museum expansion.

Paul Horky

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Re: Down the Mountain to Trout Brook - Official Work Thread
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2009, 03:52:20 PM »
Please Read this is to the BOD. I had an Idea on what to do at the landslide area I think a cheaper way to fix this and is most likely how Old Sam and The original railroad might have fixed this problem. This would be to cut the shelf for the right of way back into the hillside to the weith needed. I do not know what kind of materal the hillside consisted of so it may be nessary to do some retaining wall to hold the side of the cut. If you have already thought of this then ohwell. Maybe something to think about. Hope this may helps.

Mike Fox

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Re: Down the Mountain to Trout Brook - Official Work Thread
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2009, 10:13:38 PM »
Paul, Unfortunately we don't have much room to shelf that to acquire the "Borrow" to fill the washout. The Right of way is only 66 feet wide and in that area. it is up hill one way and down the next. The former President met with atleast one, probably more, local contractors to see about fixing this area up. The material they can haul in will be much better than the clay earth that is found along the ROW. Gravel will provide a much better base.

 And to add to what Ed said about the "Decision Forum", we know where the decisions are made. By the Board. But with a little discussion from near and far, from members and non-members (become one today!) some good ideas have come from this discussion forum. As long as EVERYBODY knows that the forum is all talk and the Boad is all action, things will be great. Now if someone else wants to take a deep cleansing breath, go for it.
Mike
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James Patten

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Re: Down the Mountain to Trout Brook - Official Work Thread
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2009, 11:53:13 PM »
Paul I think you're talking about a "Shoo-fly" if I'm not mistaken.

In another location it might be a great idea, however as Mike mentioned, there's not much room in that particular location.  The immediate ground to railroad east is a steep, high hill, and to railroad west is the stream bed valley, with several dozen vertical feet from road bed to either crest of hill or bottom of stream.  The roadbed was literally cut from the hillside there.

Also Alna seems to be homebase for clay.  Clay is underneath everywhere you look, just about.

Additionally, the local conservation group, Sheepscot Valley Conservation Association, doesn't like the washout anymore than we do (but for very different reasons) and would like it dealt with/stabilized.

Paul Horky

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Re: Down the Mountain to Trout Brook - Official Work Thread
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2009, 01:05:04 AM »
Guess I misunderstood. I thought at least part of the original shelf was still there. So what I thought could be done was to cut back more into the hillside to realine the track.
By the way how much right of way was lost?
As for membership I already am a member in fact I am life member #537 thank you.