Author Topic: Anything New Here Going On at the Sandy River RR???  (Read 18960 times)

Ed Lecuyer

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Re: Anything New Here Going On at the Sandy River RR???
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2013, 09:23:55 PM »
Update on #3 posted 1/1/2013 at:
http://www.srrl-rr.org/Projects/Monson_3/Monson_3.htm

The engine is back in Philips and awaiting some final work and assembly.
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Matthew Gustafson

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Re: Anything New Here Going On at the Sandy River RR???
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2013, 02:04:49 AM »
Gosh If I had some money right now I would donate to them right now. Im sorry to hear that they are flat out broke right now. I hope they get the money soon.  :o :-[ :( ;)
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Richard "Steam" Symmes

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Re: Anything New Here Going On at the Sandy River RR???
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2013, 12:28:32 AM »
Who made up the difference between the estimated amount of $25,000 and the actual amount of $128,000?  Or is that, "on the tab"? That's $103.000 to come up with.  From where? Within what time frame? Wasn't Phillips advised how much the final cost was getting to be as work went along?  Who gave the "go ahead" in spite of the vast over-budget amount that was piling up?

Again, is not Maine Narrow Gauge Museum the real owner of #3?   So the Phillips folks are basically on the hook for a rebuilt locomotive, which they don't own. And the MNG gets a rebuilt locomotive for free, plus lease payments from Phillips.  Is that correct?

Is there an itemized bill of material and labor for the work done so far on #3?  If so, I think it should be made public before asking for more donations.  Who's to say that future donations will be any better accounted for?  There seem to be way too many extra marbles in this game.  Speaking for myself, I would be hesitant to toss one more cent into this pot without knowing a whole lot more about what went down so far, and what may yet lie ahead. 


Vincent "Lightning" LeRow

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Re: Anything New Here Going On at the Sandy River RR???
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2013, 07:03:15 PM »
RE:
Quote
Again, is not Maine Narrow Gauge Museum the real owner of #3?   So the Phillips folks are basically on the hook for a rebuilt locomotive, which they don't own. And the MNG gets a rebuilt locomotive for free, plus lease payments from Phillips.  Is that correct?

MNG is the current owner of #3, and leased to Phillips for a rebuild, no payments on top of that.  At the time of the lease (before issues with #10 and consequently all of the Dylan built Edaville boilers cropped up) the expected work was new tubes and running gear work (timing, tramming, wheel turning etc.).  with volunteer labor factored in 25k was a reasonable, perhaps slightly optimistic, number for materials and occasional expertise.

It has been said before "if what is known now was known then, this lease would not have happened."  Hind sight is  20/20.

As a whole, let's stop trying to demonize MNG for this.  They did not intentionally lease a lemon.  They are not trying to gut another organization for a free rebuild.  #3 was the regular engine for quite some time before re-doing #4, which was estimated to be in worse condition than #3 and spent many years plinthed in the museum building.

The intended plan was to lease #3 to Phillips where it could run as-is without a form 4, and with a suspected light overhaul (tubes and running gear) it would return to MNG with approximately 5-10 years of form 4 left.  It would have been a boon to both parties if things went to plan, but the plan was only good until the battle started.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 07:10:18 PM by Vincent "Lightning" LeRow »
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Ed Lecuyer

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Re: Anything New Here Going On at the Sandy River RR???
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2013, 07:26:17 PM »
let's stop trying to demonize MNG for this.

Moreover, I'd prefer to give all parties the benefit of the doubt - and not "demonize" (a strong term, but I'll let it slide) either party.

MNG made what they considered a reasonable deal, and SRRL agreed. The locomotive (no matter who owns it, leases it, or whatever) needs money for continued operation. It is in *everyone's* best interest to see it under steam again.

The deficiencies with the Edaville-ordered boilers (all 5 of them) are now well known by the various mechanical-minded people of the organizations. I suspect this was discovered as #3, #4, and #7 all were worked on during the same time frame.

I really doubt that anyone sets out to ruin someone else's organization (or their own.) We're all human. Mistakes are made, and lessons are learned.
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John McNamara

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Re: Anything New Here Going On at the Sandy River RR???
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2013, 08:14:44 PM »
I would hope that all readers of the WW&F Discussion Forum are also readers of the Interchange forum at www.rypn.org. There they will find chronicles of dozens (hundreds?) of other restoration projects that involved the expenditure of more time and money than was ever envisioned. Old locomotives (and old buildings) are full of surprises. Mid-project we say,  "We'd never have started this had we known," and wish we could have examined the historic object with some sort of MRI-like machine to reveal the hidden flaws. However, with such perfect fore-knowledge, most of our history would lie rusting and rotting before us with no attempt to salvage it.

-John

Keith Taylor

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Re: Anything New Here Going On at the Sandy River RR???
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2013, 09:11:42 PM »
I know that with any of my home repair projects....it always turns out to be way more involved than I ever imagined. It also will require six trips to the hardware store to buy tools that I know I own, but cannot find.

Keith

Richard "Steam" Symmes

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Re: Anything New Here Going On at the Sandy River RR???
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2013, 09:31:34 PM »
"Lightning" has struck!

Thank you for the explanation. That's what we needed to know. . . the details behind this situation.  Some of the questions we posed still have gone unanswered, but we'll leave it at that for now, lest we give the Moderator cause for alarm.

We were not, and are not, trying to "demonize" anyone or any organization. Merely trying to get to the bottom of the story.  If the ordinary person is being asked to continually send more money to a group, they at least deserve to know the details of what's going down, so they can make up their minds whether or not to continue to support the project.  There's way too many "pie in the sky" projects going on out there. We all know what they are and where they are and how long they've been "in the sky".  People begin to get gun shy after seeing these "black holes" parade past in review over the years.

We wish ALL restoration projects well, but we urge more complete communication up front and continually from the "inner circle" folks to the rest of us out here in the boonies who are being asked to support them. That's all.  Then we can choose what to support and to what extent.

The WW&F always has done well in fundraising because they constantly COMMUNICATE to the members and they SHOW in the newsletter the proof of the pudding, so to speak. Members and other potential donors have come to expect no "surprises" at the WW&F, only success stories, year in and year out.  That's what some of the other organizations need to emulate.  We hope they will.

Richard

PS: Happy New Year to all

Mike Fox

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Re: Anything New Here Going On at the Sandy River RR???
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2013, 01:53:26 AM »
I would like to think that with the completion of No. 3, this could be a success story you are looking for from them. They are a much smaller organization than the WW&F or MNGRR. Less of a "core group" to do the thank you's, etc. I am looking forward to a ride behind it again once it is operational.
Mike
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Colby Miles

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Re: Anything New Here Going On at the Sandy River RR???
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2013, 03:00:49 PM »
If anything, SR&RL not having a core group is what hurts them the most if anything. I am going to, should time permit, start volunteering at SR&RL and help them out. I am a 7 year old hand at this point from MNGRR. I think they could really use an extra hand up there.
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Pete "Cosmo" Barrington

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Re: Anything New Here Going On at the Sandy River RR???
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2013, 10:28:12 PM »
That's a great idea!
I wish I lived closer so I could do the same but... oh well.

Mike Fox

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Re: Anything New Here Going On at the Sandy River RR???
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2015, 11:39:35 PM »
I know this thread is old, but have no other place to put this. So here goes.

While out doing the family thing, I managed to sneak a railroad related item in since I was the wheel steerer. I stopped late afternoon and parking by the roundhouse, got out to see what was happening. I was just in time to see Noah lowering the motor into the replica railcar he is building. Not much to see of it yet, but what there was was done perfectly. I also took a few minutes to look around the roundhouse at the several other projects they have. The coach they have been working on is looking real nice, though years away from being done, barring a big push on it.
The train was out with some passengers and they pulled from the station up to the roundhouse, pulled by #4, the Wesley Spear. I said something about the locomotive being historic, and Noah said it was 45 years old. A historical piece in itself.
The train was an open car and a caboose, 559 I think, but don't hold me to it.
Mike
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Pete "Cosmo" Barrington

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Re: Anything New Here Going On at the Sandy River RR???
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2015, 03:08:19 AM »
Did you gather anything firsthand about #3 while you were there? The most recent update I can find is 3 yrs old now.

Mike Fox

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Re: Anything New Here Going On at the Sandy River RR???
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2015, 10:50:22 AM »
Did not ask.
Mike
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Hansel Fardon

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Re: Anything New Here Going On at the Sandy River RR???
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2015, 09:10:05 PM »
« Last Edit: October 31, 2015, 09:36:01 PM by Ed Lecuyer »